Season 2

The Joy in Goal Setting

Empowering individuals to discover their purpose, achieve their goals, and experience a joyful life through encouraging conversation.

The Joy in Goal Setting Podcast cover

Season Two Episodes

Episode 8:

Embracing Your Creativity and Well Being through Art with Karen DeLoach

Karen DeLoach, Artist, Art Mentor & Keynote Speaker

We are ending the season with an enlightening episode as we delve into the world of art education and right brain advantages with Karen, a visionary art teacher, mentor, and advocate for unleashing creativity. In this captivating conversation, Karen shares her journey as a pioneering educator, offering profound insights into the transformative power of art and right brain learning. From fostering creativity and innovation in the classroom, to mentoring aspiring artists and coaches, Karen’s passion for nurturing the next generation of right brain thinkers shines through. Tune in for an inspiring discussion as Karen shares practical strategies and heartfelt anecdotes to empower educators, mentors, and coaches in unlocking the full potential of their students and clients.

Karen DeLoach is an art teacher, mentor, and coach. Follow her on Facebook @KarenDeloachArt

Hutson 0:13
The joy in goal setting podcast is proud to be partnered with and brought to you by the ideal life. The ideal life offers a multimedia platform that is focused on cultivating a growth mindset. Here you’ll find a supportive community of coaches, valuable online resources and transformative courses aimed at helping you lead a more gratifying and joyful life. Ready to take the next step in your personal growth journey. Visit the ideal to explore their wealth and resources and join the vibrant growing community today. Welcome to the joy and goal setting podcast where we empower individuals to discover their purpose, achieve their goals and experience a joyful life through encouraging conversation. I’m your host Hudson DODDS. Today, we’re sitting down with Karen DeLoach. Karen is an artist, author and speaker, we discussed how art is not just for experts, using art as therapy, and how to engage your right brain.

Karen, welcome to show I’m so glad you’re here.

Karen 1:18
Thank you, Hudson, it’s my privilege, believe me. Awesome.

Hutson 1:23
So we’re in the new year and asking folks, oftentimes there’s things that are scary of the new year or things that are particularly exciting. It’s wondering, for you and 2024 maybe one thing that is exciting you some potential or something that’s maybe I don’t know, new, or something’s kind of scary. That’s unknown for you in 2024. Well,

Karen 1:46
in just a month, I’m turning 70. So that’s a new decade that I’m kind of shocked. You know, I just read in the doctor’s office, it said, getting older happens so fast. I don’t feel old. But you know, you think of seven years being grandma’s I am a grandma by the way. But 2024 has so much potential for change. And I am passionate about being an agent of change for your generation. I have grandchildren, I want to see things so much better for them than we’ve experienced these last few decades. But yeah, I’m very hopeful. And I love podcasting. I love that it’s some you know, pick it up and go, you can take the message and put your earbuds in and travel and do whatever you need to do to listen and learn. So I

Hutson 2:32
love that. That’s awesome potential. That’s super exciting. So where are you from? What? What school did you go to? Or schools plural? And, and what are you doing currently?

Karen 2:43
Well, those are great questions. I’m a Jersey girl. I was Cameron from Jersey, my family’s from New Jersey, but we’re all in the South. Now. I’ve been here half my life. So I’m officially a southern or even jersey is my roots. But arts have always been in my family. I’m an artist and filmmaker, actor. Author now. And in the arts were really important in my family, my father, Irish storyteller, who was on vaudeville, from from New York from from Jersey City. And so that was in me. And you know, I talk to my students. I am a teacher. I teach art. And I’ve been to many colleges and have BFA and MA and another certificate filmmaking. So school is been a big deal, because I love to learn and I love to teach. But teaching really has taught me a lot about what people need. And I’m obviously very right brain arts oriented. And I found because we ended up homeschooling our children who were all musicians and artists and actors that didn’t do well sitting still, yeah, for seven hours a day in classes. They weren’t thriving. I knew they weren’t stupid that there was the situation was the problem, not them, but they were pretty convinced they were stupid. And they couldn’t do well. So we brought them home and we started coops and we got help for who they were, you know, to train them up to be what worked for them. And they are other professional musicians. They even teach English. They live in Germany, and they and they and they teach English which is just mind boggling. There are parents who were like scratching their heads. Are they ever going to be able to do that? Get out? Yeah. Now they teach it and they laugh about it too. But they’re professional musicians. And they went there and to produce music and I fell in love with German girls. And now I have little half German baby. So you’re talking about learning new things. For me. It’s German spec and Deutsch that’s on my new teaching, teaching through Duolingo how to speak to my grandchildren. Dueling was amazing. It is I love it. It’s

Hutson 4:47
fantastic. Our kids have been doing it every day since August. Rolled we’re going to Madrid at the end of March. So they’ve been they’ve been committed to it and they love it.

Karen 4:58
That’s wonderful. Oh,

Hutson 5:00
yeah, yeah, learning new things, right? Yeah,

Karen 5:02
I made my third son I made him I made them take Spanish in school even though I didn’t speak it. And he is working as a contractor where they’re constructing and landscaping doing landscape construction. Now their whole crew are our Spanish speakers don’t speak any English. And he’s not only remembered his journey, his Spanish, but he’s learned how to be fluent with them. Yeah, it is cool. It’s exciting.

Hutson 5:27
That’s awesome. So you are an artist at heart. And educator at heart. It sounds like how do you see those two things being maybe complementary? Or how have you seen those things kind of like playing to each other for yourself?

Karen 5:39
That’s that’s a good question, too. You know, we talked a little bit about four about left brain, right brain. And we have an education system in the West that’s very left brain oriented, which is critical thinking memorization order. Very important things timeliness, chronology, all good things. Nothing wrong with them. However, it tends to be to the detriment even trivializing of the skills of our other half of our hemisphere, our brain, our right brain. Like if you ask a five year olds, class, a five year olds, you guys like to color to dance to sing to bang on drums to run around about Yes, yes, yes. But ask a room of 15 year olds that same question. It’s about 10%. Say yes. So what happened in that 10 years? Did they lose the capacity for creativity? Did they somehow become convinced they couldn’t call or they couldn’t sing? They couldn’t do this. They couldn’t do that? Or was it just so ignored that it wasn’t important enough in the curriculum to develop for them? That’s makes me sad, ya know, as

Hutson 6:48
you know, even call oftentimes the arcs like extracurricular, right, it’s like outside of it. It’s even

Karen 6:53
available. Yeah, anymore. Yeah. And, you know, we live in a beautiful city here in Charleston, South Carolina, that has wonderful galleries almost on every block and museums. And I can’t tell you how many of my students who’ve never been to one. So our course make them go. They get the privilege of taking a selfie. Yeah, proving and then they don’t have to take the final quiz anything not to take the quiz, right? Yeah. But they get exposed. And, you know, one of the one of my goals is not just to teach them about Rembrandt and Michelangelo, and you know, Vincent van Gogh, which I do, but also, what do you like? Most of us can tell you what we like in music. But can we tell what we like in art? Yeah. And a lot of people don’t even have art on their walls that we wouldn’t even know what to do. And so that’s one of my jobs is not just to teach them the history of Western art, which is rich and beautiful, amazing. But also, what do you think about it? Yeah, they’re gonna remember what makes them feel. So what do you feel about it? Yeah.

Hutson 7:57
How have you seen your students over time being not just exposed, like you say, not just exposure to art, but actually taking in what they’re seeing and then making it their own? In some ways? Have you seen that change? Maybe Maybe you haven’t other areas of their life or their studies? Or have you seen that kind of come together to make them more of a whole person?

Karen 8:20
Well, I have a I have a story about that, if you’d like to your very specific story. With this is in the homeschooling years, and I hadn’t had parents bring students to my studio, and I got the parents to do art to found lots of talented parents. But a lot of times they brought Him because they weren’t thriving and academics, either. In this case, this particular student had ADHD and dyslexia. Writing was torment for him. Reading was torment for him. And he was feeling stupid. And his mom knew he wasn’t stupid. She brought him to the studio. And it wasn’t very long to find out this. This child is an artist. He could sculpt anything he wanted, he could draw, he could paint. He’s I started entering his work into the fair Youth Competition, which is the largest youth competition in the low country. He started winning. And eventually, when he was in high school, he started thriving in his academics, by the way, when he started making those neural connections between left brain and right brain, it helped him with his deficiencies in his learning skills. And he was getting more confidence in his abilities. So he was he ended up graduating from high school, but before he did, I entered him another time and is a batik he did in my studio and he won not just first place but Best in Show got award said he wanted to go to Disney World and his parents took him there and he got an infection that led to a brain infection which caused a stroke and paralyzed him on the right side. So here he is, not quite 18 years old, paralyzed, and it was devastating to the whole family for months he was in rehab to even be able to leave the hospital. His mom brought him right to the studio. He could barely walk, he couldn’t talk. He couldn’t use his right hand. So I thought, well, let’s just try it left handed. You know, what do I know? I’m not. I’m not a trained Art Therapist, right. But I know, I know, this young man. And in a very short amount of time, he was as good with his left hand as he had been his right hand to the point where his neurosurgeon called me. Now, picture this. I’ve never called someone’s art teacher before. Right. Extracurricular Yeah, triviality, right? What are you doing with David? Because not only is he is good with his weak hand than he was his right, but he’s better than I am. And I’m a surgeon. What are you doing is causing connections between his left and right brain? He’s getting healing on his right side? Of course, that was the news. I’m like, wow, yeah. You know, I’m not, I’m not the scientist here. But, you know, now, David walks and talks, and you wouldn’t know what he’d been through these last few years. He still has trouble with his right hand. But he can, he not only draws left hand, but he can write right, I mean, left handed, left handed. So it’s, it’s like he was able to compensate. You know, what they’re learning about brain science. There’s even a neuroscience called neuro arts because they’re finding that when people learn these new skills of drawing and painting, an observation, that they’re actually connecting new, even new parts of their brain. Even at Walter Reed, Army hospital, they took in a lot of these wounded veterans that had gone as far as they could with physical improvement, but they brought them in and they, they started testing what they could do to help them emotionally and mentally. And they came out and almost the number one thing they enjoyed was art. And these are not people identifying as artists, right, right, people that just were trying to distract them, you know, and one more story of the healing power of art. And it was an adult who took my classes and was very good. And then she got a terrible diagnosis of cancer, breast cancer, given six months, longevity. And I had a great big hands on project. It was a room installation, where I was going to be doing hundreds of ceramic pieces, I knew she was gonna I said, Come help me come to the studio and help me with the show, which was in nine months. She’s I don’t even know if I’m gonna be here. And she did all the medical things. She she did chemo, radiation, she did the surgery and reconstruction. Meanwhile, everyday, she could choose in the studio with me working with her hands, we made a great show. It’s called tasted see sweet shot. Matter of fact, some of the pieces I was selling in this gallery right down here, on the same block as you like cakes, and cupcakes and candies, and cookies and trays anyway, we had a great show, and she was there. And 10 years later, she is still cancer free. Wow. And I talked to her recently, and I said I want to use your story. And she said, tell my story. Because I know that having something to look forward to number one, something to focus on that was beautiful and uplifting and fun, really kept me from despair. And we know emotional connections between physical healing and life, you know, being restored physically. And she’s still cancer free. So I guess it’s not quite 10 years, but almost. But

Hutson 13:27
it’s amazing. What if it fits in the lines, right with the neuroscience that we found with, as you said, pursuing something on a daily basis on a consistent basis. And we found is what you’re saying, which is that when you pursue a purpose, or you pursue something on a consistent basis, where you’re weak or deliberately practicing something, so when it’s like consistent, and you’re like you talk about it’s like commerce that flow state people try and get into, when that happens, you begin to rewire your, the connections in your brain exactly right, that it makes sense, right? And so we it’s the philosophy we talk about can be applied to everything, what if it’s art, or if it’s sports, or if it’s reading or if it’s anything, right? Any one of our life roles, even like being just being a better person at home, or that might be out of pursuing that. And when we set little goals that aren’t as like, perfect, I’m a sports guy. And it aligns with this mentality. And I think art is very, very similar, in that, when you’re doing things that are hands, it’s almost like little mini goals that you’re accomplishing on a consistent basis to get to maybe a final piece or a final show or something that you’re looking forward to and you’re pursuing. That constantly is giving us those positive chemicals to where it aligns us with who we want to be. We can keep on going. We have that reason to survive. Our founder has a very similar story of his mother in cancer. And it’s the same kind of idea of of applying this framework. This philosophy has allowed her to be cancer free because of it. Wow. It’s amazing. It’s amazing how when we We have that purpose and we pursue it and we reach those little goals. And then big goals may continue on that path, like how everything just opens up, and we can do more things. Now, it’s not the only thing we’re doing. It’s not just art, but opens up like you were saying before the other student, a whole new life, a whole new world. It’s amazing.

Karen 15:16
It is. And I was a sports kid, too, did gymnastics and then played soccer in college. So I love sports. And my students are always surprised when they come in. And the first thing I do is take a plastic ball and start playing catch with them. Guess what drawing is? eye hand coordination, you know? So one of the first things we do I have a little two and three year old grandchildren’s we ball, which is the International favorite toy of the world, throw and catch the first things you do. I went on a missions trip a year ago, and we brought a whole bunch of soccer balls in not inflated, you know, flat balls that we could pump with air and they just thought they were in heaven. They all got real soccer balls for we had an arts competition we did in Uganda. And it’s actually a talent show. That was amazing. And I got to meet him and I’m actually doing film school with them. They have internet and every time they have internet, we get to do film school. So yeah, yeah, it’s pretty exciting.

Hutson 16:10
So when did you go from, you know, loving art, which you always have, of course, you still do. From there, how what path led you to really diving deep and getting interested in the science behind behind what you’re doing?

Karen 16:26
Well, part of it was seeing the power of art to heal is seeing the evidence, you know, with some of my students for one thing. And when I started teaching in college, teaching art in college and using textbooks that art history people had written now these are people that love art, they love art history. And I saw the disengagement with my students. Through this, these textbooks. I’ve barely used the textbooks, I used so much more material. To the point during COVID, I actually decided to write a book, a publisher approached me. And I thought, you know, I know what these kids really need. Yeah, you know, to propel them into a world that doesn’t say, I don’t know anything about art, I don’t care about art, right. And a lot of our athletic they come to me a lot of them are still in high school, you know, people taking dual credit. Well, art is one of the classes they bring them into. And I want them to have a blast and remember it and stir up their own creativity. So one of my books is how to draw and when it’s exercises, but the first one is throwing catch a ball that shocks them every time. What does this have to do with art? Because I teach fundamentals how to draw Yeah, I have a book how to paint because this my story, I was very athletic and a drama theater was my my minor in art was wasn’t my strongest suit. I love to draw. I was good at drawing, but not in painting. And I was a painting major. And this is after the abstract expressionist era when my teachers had all been raised, right. I just want to paint people and scenery and make it look fantastic and beautiful. And they wanted me to be deeper than I was 18 and 19. Sorry, this is what you see. Yeah, but they used four letter words to describe my paintings. They didn’t really teach me to paint. They gave me a room and said, you know, come back in six weeks try again. Yeah, I tried to be esoteric and I got more, I got passed because I did things that weren’t painting, you know, using my mind. But I became convinced it wasn’t good enough. So that’s one reason why I went to graduate school in sculpture and learn ceramic, which I love CERAM I do. I am a hands on there, right? I love hands on. But for 20 years, I kept trying to paint. And I couldn’t finish I get to that point where my skills just didn’t quite get to the level. Exactly right. And I was I was moving and I was looking at all these canvases, I started having these beautiful little baby boys and I wanted to paint them so bad, and they were just not good enough. And that’s the way I felt about myself until I got a mentor. A man who had been to the Chicago Art Institute back in the day when they taught the fundamentals. And he actually taught me how to paint. And he he helped me become not just a better artist, but a better teacher. Because that’s what I teach Yeah, how to paint. I don’t care what kind of art you end up doing. But you’re going to learn how to paint, how to use the color wheel to find out compliments and how, you know even if like for my husband, who was a master gardener, you know, he he learned so much learning about painting and learning about color that helped him when he was putting beds in arranging and he’s a decorator anyway, I make the stuff he puts them up figures out where to put them. So that you know everybody’s got something and I believe we’re all creative. Why would we have half our brain alone? That is wired to be great if if we weren’t supposed to be right. And you know, you talk about discipline and consistency and that kind of hard work and for most of us right brain people. That sounds like you’re going to strangle me right now. Yeah.

Hutson 19:57
That’s right. That’s right. That’s right.

Karen 19:59
Those Your cell left brain right. You know, and and it’s it’s not that there’s anything wrong with those things. But what we have has been so trivialized right, and not monetized. Trust me. Yeah. Which is why a lot of us went to graduate school so we can become teachers or professors, some make some kind of living to support ourselves. And I can talk about art history when the church or business people or the Domenici supported artists, you know, to enable them to create these incredible masterpieces. What’s it going to take in our culture, and for me, I’m like, Alright, one student at a time, I have 75 right now just started school last week 75, and I’m going to open up their eyes to the beauty of their creation, the beauty of the world of art, and find something that they can love and be responsive to Yeah, and I make them pick something out of the book. It’s a 630 page book, you know, 1800 images. I know some of them will never read one word of the book, you know, maybe they’ll look at the pictures. Yeah, and find something they love something that will spark something in them. And then I make them do exercises, I make them. My first exercises after throwing and catching a ball is you can’t look at your paper. You have to draw without looking at your paper. Guess what that does engage as the right brain shuts that left brain critic off and I said, we are creating a safe space with no criticism, guess what criticism comes from? Judgment. It’s all left brain skills. Right. But for the right brain, which is sensitive, intuitive, imaginative, comes up with inventions and new ways to put things together. It says it doesn’t thrive in an in a critical atmosphere. I’m I’m a best case scenario right here. Yeah, I believed that there were the professors. I’m not good enough, right. I didn’t know I could become good enough with the right trainers. I’m not blaming them. That’s who they were, you know, and they were all artists to it. Which, which is what I realized, when I wrote wrote the art history and appreciation textbook is I’m gonna write one from from the right brain. Yeah, they’re still when they were born. And you know, a little bit of that, but it’s mostly, gosh, he fought disease, or death of a sibling or mental illness or poverty or war in his country, what was going on in his or her world? And what were they fighting? Or how did how did she get to be famous? Because women weren’t supposed to be artists, you know, in our generation. So, you know, to hear these stories, and they start getting excited. And we are we are connected through our stories. Yeah.

Hutson 22:34
I think you’re right, when you talk about mentor kind of led you down this path to a degree at least it opened you up, right. And we use a liberal approach in terms of the word coach, and we think about coaching as anyone who is helping you become the person, like the best version of yourself, which you could argue as a teacher, right? For sure. And yes, when I was talking about discipline, it was more what you just said, which is like, perfect, which is this idea that you said one student at a time. And so we look at the discipline and discipline it is but it’s, as you’re doing five minutes, something, it’s one step forward, and you’re building that habit, that skill, which is making those connections that allows you to be more the person that you want to be so for, in our perspective, it’s exactly we’re talking about. It’s being inspired by something and insane, but not but now what now do I do with it and take one student at a time one step at a time towards being that that best version of herself? Is so I know you’re doing some coaching? You talk about teaching as well, what has that been like for you take us kind of on that journey?

Karen 23:44
Yeah, I call myself a creativity specialist. Somebody gave me that title. I thought I liked that, because there are so many parts of it. And I hardly know any art, people that aren’t good at more than one arts thing. Do you only sports people that only do one sport? Are they only like one sport?

Hutson 23:59
They’re not really good at it if they do.

Karen 24:02
Yeah, that’s, that’s true. But they still love more than one sport, you know, and even my family is very sports. My mother watches, professional football still, it’s usually 92 and a couple of weeks. So it’s in our culture, for sure. The sports and they really are connected. The arts. I think people have less connection with but, you know, reading the scientists of last couple years, some of them say 815 1820 minutes a day is all it takes. And it’s so easy. And this is the thing. You know, I remember reading a study where in office buildings, the smokers that had to go out to smoke, they were finding they had better heart hurt than the ones sitting at their desk the whole time. So what was going on besides smoking, that caused those smokers to have those 1520 minutes? They’re out there dealing with the weather talking to other people, you know, taking a puff Look at this guy. I’m not advocating advocate advocating smoking, believe me, but there was some thing to taking a break. And now, you know, reading other brain scientists are saying, you’ve got to rest your brain every 90 minutes, you should. And those of us on the computer a lot, which is what you do now and you’re mentoring people online is you’re on the computer a lot. And I know I have to make myself I ride my bike a couple times a day, you know, to get up and move and it helps your brain. Yeah. Now here’s an interesting one. Singing in the shower, okay? You sing in the shower, do anybody use things I used to all anymore? Well, guess what happens when you sing in the shower. You are using your right brain. Because you’re Rubba dub dub, you know, scrubbing the tub, and you’re not thinking about anything, you’re just having a good song, you know, just having a good good song, whatever, whatever song is in your head, you’re singing it. And you’re good. You get out your dressing. And something comes to mind. Maybe there was something you were pondering, you know, earlier a situation or a problem at work or something comes to mind. And you don’t put the connection. But you have been building those, those dendrites and those neural connections without your left brain being involved at all other than having to soak up you know, usable sides that right. But the right brain is having a chance to develop some connections saying, Hey, I got some answers here. Yeah. And some answers calm. Something as simple as singing in the shower. So do it. I love

Hutson 26:29
it. I love it. I love it. If you want to discover how the ideal lives founder Mark Condon quit smoking, shed 80 pounds, established a thriving logistics company, and embrace the challenges of becoming an Ironman triathlete, all things the framework we referenced in today’s episode, order your copy of his inspiring book, the ideal life today, with any website or any major retailer, begin your journey towards a fulfilling life filled with purpose and achievement. For everyone having creative and I think you’re, I think you’re spot on, I think that part of it is it maybe you can speak to this but growing up, and you said a little bit about it in school, being creative, creative, usually centered on like, just art class, maybe creative writing, maybe our music, some music, but even music sometimes ends early or you’re you’re learning music theory you’re listening or you’re not really having the chance to express yourself musically, oftentimes in school. And then if you can’t draw well, let’s say then you think, Well, I’m not creative, which is not true. I don’t think I draw particularly well my kids think I do, which is I love that. They won’t soon it’ll realize this is a big Sham. But you mentioned how sports and arts go hand in hand. They do. Like there’s, from an athletic perspective. There’s so much creativity in sports, the way that people express. I love soccer in Europe, they use the phrase, they express him or herself on the field, which is like a great phrase, we don’t use the word express in America talk about sports, but expressing yourself in a creative way. It’s amazing. And it’s true. And it’s all over sports, and then you see it in writing, or you see it in all of these different capacities you would think well, I’m creative. But it is an interesting concept to think about. Okay, how do you take what you’re doing over here? And how do we put that in, in terms of the majority of folks who aren’t going to take your class who are who are or are not going to do art, but are doing quote unquote, normal blue collar work or even normal white collar work when they’re doing their thing? How do we how do you how do you make that connection where they can see oh, no, I have creativity here’s how I can exercise the right side of my brain to help me where do you see any connection there? How do you how do you make some movement there?

Karen 28:56
I’ve got a whole bunch of suggestions but you know where it starts is asking Okay, think back to before you were in school, either five or six. What did you love to do them? Did you like did you just tend to bang on everything you know start drumming everywhere you went you know everything became a drum I have I’ve one of my sons is a drummer Do you couldn’t you knew it from everything everything was you know drumsticks everything was something to drum on. Or singer you know or dancer. Did you just want to twirl everywhere you went you know or stick out your pose or you know what was in there? Did you did you like me? The paper wasn’t big enough. So we colored on the walls got into big trouble but we color on the walls. My mom had no way of knowing I was eventually going to become a muralist and get paid to. We joke about it and boy when you’re five and six, that’s not a popular thing. Because you know, even having two and three year old grandchildren watching them color, they’re serious. Oh yeah. No, you talk about focus. One of them is ambidextrous like one My son’s whatever side the paint brushes on is whether we’re going to use or fork eat what you know either way, but but my grandson is definitely right handed. But when he’s at that paper that easel and he’s got some paint on that brush, he’s focused and serious. Yeah. And we don’t see anything, right? You know, and I learned a big lesson because, you know, teaching in a co op, I had students that would come back year after year, and have these couple of little boys that I was becoming convinced that they would never learn to draw. And I wouldn’t say that. But inside, I’m like, I think getting anything out of this, or something happened over the summer. And they came back in the fall. Without, you know, even blinking, they could draw. And I started trying to find out what happened to them, you know, that pre pubescent kind of age between eight and 12, that they just had something develop in their prefrontal cortex, you know, excuse me of getting that wrong. But that developed to where the now that they could see what they were doing before that there was nothing wrong with what they were doing. Right. And I certainly didn’t tell them there was, but there was still a gap between what they were doing and reality. So now they have this connection, but they had the skills because they had been learning how to do it through through correct foundational skill building, they can draw, and I’m not saying these are children that are going to be an artist, sure. But there are some connections that are there. If they can become a businessman, they’re going to know that there’s a creative side of their brain that they can listen to, and Intuit this the part of us, you know, if you are spiritual at all, it’s the part of you that hears that still small internal voice or people saying my gut told me What’s you’ve heard coaches even say that in my gut, I know you’re supposed to be a receiver. You know, what God is He talking about? What’s there? And it’s, it’s that intuitive side that we want to promote? Yeah, we want to be more than AI can replicate. And I can tell you, you know, us older generation, I’m not afraid of it. I used to chat GPT all the time. You know, I write stuff all the time. Yeah. But I’m not afraid of it. Because I know something about the right brain that I can’t replace. Yes, it can. It can replace repetition in memorize lists. And it can, you know, do things faster than our than we can, but it will never never take never be able to replace a human the human touch. Yeah. Right. Bring creative touch. Yeah. And it’s, you know, when I when I coach, I don’t just coach artists, I coach, people who want to find out what their creative spark is what it what am I supposed to do, and I can do it through drawing and painting, but sometimes, alright, lets you like to cook. Let’s talk about what you can do with recipes. And creating, there’s so many ways to be creative. You know, just journaling, just, you know, freeform, no editing, you know, this is the other thing. Don’t bring that left brain down here. Yeah, go. Don’t try to correct spelling. Thank you, you know, for Thank you spellcheck.

Hutson 33:07
Well, but it’s interesting. You said that. Because you think about the ability to not edit. Journaling, for example, talk to my kids all the time, we were just in Universal Studios with big Harry Potter people had an absolute blast. But we’re a pretty, pretty hectic schedule is the wrong word. They like to know what’s going on, which is great. And we usually we set them up with a plan, they’re more successful in that they know what to date notice. Yeah, so they the expectations are met, they don’t have tantrums all those things, right, which is great for us as a family. But what it does, though, is then there’s an expectation that there’s always a plan, you know, which I always tell my wife about in line, they’re like, so what’s next, you know, they were like getting wheat plans change, and they got a little anxious. And I was like, hey, sometimes we have plans. And those are good. That’s great. Sometimes the plan is to not really have a plan. And we’re just gonna go with the flow. Like you. But what about Mike? No, no, it’s, it’s just to let it go. So it was one of those like, Aha moments of like, we’ve done a lot to help set them up for success in these areas. But it’s also caused this little bit of a, okay, we need to, we need to speak into that a little bit more as a family about we don’t have this is this is free, like freedom, right? So it makes me think about the journaling, and even art in some ways, you know, the old like, artists won’t sign that work. Because if they can’t, that means it’s done. It’s completed. It’s what they meant to be is meant to be the end right? Versus It’s okay. Like it’s okay, just to shut it off and let it be and it’s not perfect, and that’s good. And that’s hard. And it’s hard in the in in our culture, especially when you’re held to the standard, a standard Write in everything. And we think that it has to transmit everything doesn’t always have to. And that’s always,

Karen 35:04
you know, when I talk about creating a safe space and no criticism zone, I’m talking about trying to shut down that I call it bully left brain because we all have that bully inside of it. You’re not good, you know, we can’t do this well enough, or you’re not fast enough for your, you know, you shouldn’t be bit farther along than now, which tied into pride. But also, I hate to say, but how do you get better? If you’re not criticizing it? And I think it’s, it’s the wrong question. Because you aren’t, you can’t help but get better. Yeah. Yeah, you can’t help. I mean, you throw towards the basket enough times, it’s gonna eventually go in. I did a granny basket shot when I was in high school. And everybody laughed me. I was short believer, not really, really short until our late puberty, you know, person. So I, it was easier for me to just go and I did it and did it and did it till I didn’t miss. Yeah. Right. I didn’t miss a foul shot between my legs. And it was a problem solved for me, you know, now, obviously, I didn’t go anywhere with basketball. Well, that’s not the point. The point is, for me solving that problem. Yeah. And doing it enough until I I wasn’t just laughed at for doing it that way. I didn’t miss and they’re not gonna laugh at you if it works.

Hutson 36:22
And that’s a perspective. I mean, we thing I think, like we talked about growth mindset versus fixed mindset. And in that, you could say, you could look at we talk about and say, well, that’s just criticizing. No, no, what we’re saying is, is that as even like an art, it shows up for you, right? And you can you can either look at and say, Well, I’m not good. I’m not an artist, or, okay, how can I, of course, I’m gonna get better. I’m gonna try again. Because I am an artist. And that’s the identity state we talk about. If you say, I’m an artist, that alone is unbelievable scientifically does for you. Right? When when you do mess up? It’s not Well, I’m not I can’t draw, I can’t paint. And you probably told yourself, I’m not a painter for how many years until he realized, yeah, that’s not true. Yeah. Right. And so it’s not, I think, in some ways, it’s like real reorienting. From a fixed mindset, a growth mindset allows for, and I don’t like the word critic, criticism, like you’re saying to not criticism, but allowing ourselves to say, No, I can get better, I can progress. Because I’m meant to be this, or I love this, I have a passion for this. And if I allow myself to grow or believe that I can grow, then all of a sudden, you can do wonders. You

Karen 37:38
know, we were talking about Duolingo. And I’ve been taking German for a couple of years. And I was discouraged. To be honest. Now I was planning a trip, I got to spend five weeks in Germany just got back. And I hadn’t, I hadn’t realized I hadn’t renewed my my Duolingo. But I heard over and over how much better my German was. Because I don’t really have experience, you know, have people to talk German to here in America. And my grandchildren are bilingual, fortunately, which is brought a whole nother world of thinking about the brain, what how does, but I realized, okay, I’m still learning vocabulary, I’m still getting better. And I went ahead and renewed. And as I’m doing it now, even though I don’t have any other trips planned, it’s like, I want to get I want to get to where I can be fluid at this and whatever it takes, you know, because it is a goal, and having a goal being goal oriented, absolutely helps. And, you know, in for me, and a lot of my clients who are older, you know, that take coaching from me. They’ve raised their families, they’ve had successful careers, but there’s a part of them that knows something’s missing that intuitive creative side, however it looks, you know, and discovering what what will bring that out, you know, I can’t teach people to sing. But I can teach them how to engage their right brain to develop that part of their, their creativity, or I can’t teach them to play the piano, but I can encourage them and see what happens when they try. And I think everybody can learn to draw, everybody can learn to paint, you know, it’s the desire, do you want to, you want to go through the process, right? And, you know, I could learn Spanish, maybe, but I don’t have that kind of going to Madrid next year, or I’m gonna go back to Germany or, you know, when and this is what the eastern part of Germany that used to be under Russian occupation. And so my, my daughter in law’s parents never didn’t learn English, they learned Russian. And now the girls were born after the wall came down, so they learned some English, but their parents don’t speak English. So I’m motivated to get to know them better. And they have great stories because it’s so interesting to us, you know, what they went through, and how different life is. I mean, I’ve been going back to Leipzig enough times to see the growth and the change as the West Didn’t part of the country poured in infrastructure into that part of that depressed country? And it’s it’s fun. You know, there’s so many treasures in Europe that yeah, we can’t relate to on our 300. You know, our own city.

Hutson 40:15
Exactly. I always talk to folks, I’m like, you know, our city is old for America. Clarify.

Karen 40:22
Yeah, we were eating in a restaurant that said, 1111 I like this cathedral is, you know, or bok bok was born. And he’s buried in in Leipzig. And so we’re in his churches, the big cathedral big when he called them, not piano, but we’re gonna call Oregon. Thank you, we’re doing come. And he had a boy’s choir that was started in 1212. It still has a school of these boys singers, you know. And there it is, you know, history everywhere you look. And they managed to restore a lot of things. And an airport, which is an old Roman fortress, 2000 years old, and like a Federalist from the 1200s. It’s like, wow, this puts things in perspective, but they had appreciation of beauty and art, and every building is different. And I just want to see that for our nation. Yeah, rest that part of our culture that has a rich, rich history of Beauty and the arts be restored?

Hutson 41:23
Yeah, well, you you walk down, you know, for us and trawls on King Street. And we’re talking earlier about keeping head down, and you look up, and you realize how the architecture is unbelievable. And often it’s the unbelievable part is the second and third floor, but you never see that because you’re looking at storefronts, and whatever, which is natural, of course, but it’s meant to draw your gaze upward, and be inspired by the Creator. And so I think it’s such a cool, a cool thing to stop for a moment and just enjoy, whether it’s nature or whether it’s architecture, or super old stuff. In your own space, and you know, in your inside your own brain doesn’t allow yourself to, to enjoy, to have have a different appreciation for for things, which is,

Karen 42:13
well, if I can, I can say just one thing that your listeners could do, yeah. Whether they identify as a creative or not, is to take 1520 minutes a day to stroll, to take a walk. And if it is in the city, look around, enjoy even even the store storefronts, for 1520 minutes, just enjoy being outside smell the air, smell the roses blooming crunch of leaves under foot or birds tweeting or, you know, just feel breathe deeply, and it will psychologically improve your left brain, right brain connections, it’s working in your behalf, just doing that. And now that doesn’t mean don’t take your aerobic walk where you’re taking something steps but just choosing not to and then maybe some time you want to bring a sketchbook and just start drawing or or journal or not. Or bring somebody to talk to or not, or bring somebody throw a ball to match or not. It’s a matter of you know, what would the clip could this develop into but just making a point, I’m going to choose to do this for myself. Just 15 it doesn’t have to be hard. It’s been chilly. So you bundle up. But still you can do it. You know, I experienced negative 11 My last week in Leipzig, going from buses to my son’s live the same city but you have to go by bus and by train and you’re waiting. So let’s walk to the next is snowing and I never felt cheeks frozen before not even growing up in New Jersey did I remember having my sheets frozen. So that’s the only thing showing. But it was still I you know, I made my grandchildren look around, look at the sky look at the buildings, you know, they’re all so interesting. And you know, just having your eyes opened? Yeah, it does something to your brain

Hutson 44:03
does we, you know, in Charleston, we always laugh about I grew up here and everything was 15 minutes away, which is not the case anymore. But also you know, you measure things by bridges we did our kids as a joke, you know, like schools, three bridges away whatever. But made a point to when ever we would drive over the bridges, particularly in the mornings on the way to school to like call out how beautiful it is. sun’s rising and the water is usually calm and all those things and it’s it’s it’s gorgeous and I do it one because it’s a good reminder for myself. I mean, I love the water I love you want to be here but also going to take that take it for granted. It’s so easy to win us. When you drive over a bridge becomes just like your blinders on. You’re getting to where you’re going versus this is an opportunity to get outside of myself and to enjoy. Enjoy VR. So we talked about being sports. I got I’m a huge golfer, I love golf. And I was in Doonbeg, Ireland this past September. And you have kind of two options. If you’re, if you’re a golfer, and you’re in Ireland, if you’re good, and you can deal with win, like, it’s one story, if you’re not really great, and it’s really windy, it’s a miserable experience. And the third option normally talks about is to just enjoy where you are, regardless of your score. And of course, I’m gonna play good because you’re competitive all those things, but I made it a point to between every hole and on the hole to like, every single time play the same course for, I don’t know, six times a lot. Wow. But to look around and just smile. And just to remind myself like this is this is amazing, right? It’s absolutely beautiful. It’s otherworldly, all those things. And then even further, there’s a really, the science behind smiling as we know, it releases the dopamine, all these things, the good chemical who talks about just smiling, even though it’s not real smile, does it actually make yourself smile? So like golfers perspective is like when you’re having a bad hole, the next hole is just a smile. But like you’re saying, looking around every day, taking 15 minutes just to like get outside and smile. The what what it would do for us as a culture, especially us literally constantly doing doing doing this like to get out and just smile would do one

Karen 46:23
wonders, speak to people. Yeah. And I forgot to mention one of the benefits is serotonin release. You talked about dopamine, whether it’s also serotonin, which is the happiness chemical feeling down in the dumps because it’s overcast, because trust me when I got to Germany, and it is an overcast country. I mean, we come from a sunny, sunny city, but overcast country. It’s tough for those of us that are geared towards towards that. All right, we’re going to enjoy our time. You know, Mama’s here, Grandma’s here, we’re going out, we’re going up, we’re gonna do we were doing and the Germans do Christmas, great. I mean, the Christmas market, you know, we’re, we’re here, we’re gonna ride the carousels we’re doing to do and, and I left them all happier than I found them. You know, it’s just that whole attitude, you know, what you’re talking about growth mindsets of just, you know, what I’m going to choose to take every day and spend part of it What can I do to you know, feel better today about myself about my world about about, you know, what’s going on, and it is good for you. So

Hutson 47:32
awesome. So there’s someone at home who’s listening and like, I really want to kind of explore my right brain? How do they get in touch with you? What is a good way for them to learn from you and take the next step?

Karen 47:44
I appreciate you asking that. Yeah, Karen DeLoache No, forward slash gift, I actually have a book that talks so a lot about my theories and stories that I’ve learned about the arts and I and if they do that, they’ll get they’ll get you know, my, I’ll get their email, and I’ll be able to send them a three part podcast that I’ve put together called art as self therapy, wellness, through creativity. And it’s 20 minute episodes, or really talks about how they can have even lists of things that they can do to disturb their own creativity and how to reach me make a make a call and book a call with me and let’s talk you know, maybe you know, see if we’d be good fit together if I can help you stir up your own creativity and feel better. Anyways. Well,

Hutson 48:33
Karen, thanks so much. It’s been a joy and a pleasure and I’m excited to see where your coaching business goes and, you know, continue seeing your art. It’s It’s amazing. Thank you.

Karen 48:41
Thank you. I appreciate that.

Episode 7:

Unleashing Your Inner Potential with Angie Spinelli

Angie Spinelli, Certified Women’s Coaching Specialist & Group Fitness Director

Tune in as we chat with Angie, an experienced fitness and functional coach, about the journey to prioritizing self care and personal growth. Through practical insights, Angie shares valuable lessons on setting realistic goals and living a healthier lifestyle. Drawing from her wealth of experience, she offers actionable advice for maintaining a positive mindset. Whether you’re navigating transitions, or personal growth journeys, Angie’s words of wisdom will inspire you to tap into your inner potential and create a life for your future self.

Angie Spinelli is a Certified Woman’s Coaching Specialist. Follow her on Instagram @angiespinelli

Hutson 0:13
The joy in goal setting podcast is proud to be partnered with and brought to you by the ideal life. The ideal life offers a multimedia platform that is focused on cultivating a growth mindset. Here you’ll find a supportive community of coaches, valuable online resources and transformative courses aimed at helping you lead a more gratifying and joyful life. Ready to take the next step in your personal growth journey. Visit the ideal to explore their wealth and resources and join the vibrant growing community today. Welcome to the joy and goal setting podcast where we empower individuals to discover their purpose, achieve their goals and experience a joyful life through encouraging conversations. I’m your host Hudson DODDS. Today we’re sitting down with Andy Spinelli, a fitness trainer, grandmother, and community volunteer. We discuss having realistic fitness goals, community involvement, and how to make your new year goals stick.

Angie, welcome to the show. I’m so glad you’re here.

Angie 1:17
Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Hutson 1:19
Yeah. So Angie, I’m curious to know a few things. One, where are you from?

Angie 1:25
I’m originally from Auburn, Alabama. But I grew up in Savannah, Georgia.

Hutson 1:30
Okay, so are you an Auburn fan?

Angie 1:32
Oh, absolutely. Okay, blade, orange and blue.

Hutson 1:35
So you were happy to see that the tide knocked out? Yeah. Well,

Angie 1:39
I wasn’t so happy to see the bowl game that Auburn was in and get back. It is.

Hutson 1:46
Nice. Okay. So then you grew up in Savannah. Awesome, awesome. And you’re in the personal fitness space? Yeah. Do you? How’d you get in that world?

Angie 1:56
It’s really kind of a funny story. So I had six children at the time, and a girlfriend of mine, and I would go to this gym and take the classes. And she was like, Do you want to get certified? You know, to teach classes? I said, Absolutely not. I said there’s no way that I can get up in front of people. And she was like, Well, you know, just look at some of the people that do it. Yeah, yeah, you can. I was like, no. She said, Well, you know, if you teach classes, you get a free gym membership. And I was like, okay, sign me. And that was 20 years ago, as

Hutson 2:31
a trip. And it was that in Charleston that was in Charleston when Jim was out with it. Well,

Angie 2:36
it was in 2003. I wasn’t affiliated with the gym, yet. I went as a member to a gym called Life Class. Yeah, yes. Yes. I went to a live class. Yes. Because it would have been right around from your school.

Hutson 2:48
Yeah, exactly. Right. Yeah. And that’s so funny. And so you get certified, you start training? Is it what you thought it’d be? Is it was it better? You thought it would be what? Or me obviously you fell in love with? You’re still doing it? Right? Why

Angie 3:02
did I don’t think I really had necessarily expectations about it. But I will tell you, the first class that I taught, I was terrible. And it just kind of grew from there, you know, getting more certifications with a class situation, but then I branched out into the personal training

Hutson 3:22
side of it. So do you find yourself enjoying the one on one a lot more than like group setting? No,

Angie 3:28
I like them both. Not necessarily one better than the other. It’s just the way I ended up me and I kind of wearing several hats within the company. So yeah, yeah.

Hutson 3:41
So the first one was terrible. You said, we we love failure, because that means you can have a chance to grow. Yeah. So how did you take that, that that first, oh, my gosh, this is miserable and not say, Yeah, I’m not this is not for me. But instead say, I’m going to keep going on What did you do there? Well,

Angie 3:56
I think I thought I was very prepared at the time. And I had written it all out for this class. And it was an hour long class. And I got through everything I had written down, and about 30 minutes. And I just, I wasn’t ready to give up. You know, I wanted to learn more. And the more I did it, the more I learned, and the more comfortable I became doing it. So now then it just seems natural.

Hutson 4:23
Yeah, yeah. And have you had a lot of longtime clients?

Angie 4:27
Oh, yes, absolutely. So two of the people that I first started out with are now my very best friends. So I’ve been teaching them for like 19 years. Oh,

Hutson 4:37
nice. Yeah. So have you found that the training space fits with your personality in terms of like, community building or relationship building? Is that who you are naturally outside of work or is that different? No,

Angie 4:52
I think it’s a big part is the community building. I love that. I love being part of the fit. As community and it is, you know, given me opportunities to do other community work that I’m very passionate about. So it’s the, you know, making those connections. Yeah,

Hutson 5:11
yeah. What what, specifically outside of training in the community have you fallen in love with or be through training has given you an opportunity to get involved with.

Angie 5:20
I am on the committee for Patterson’s Academy. It is a school in West Ashley, for children with multiple severe disabilities. It’s a charter school. So they’re funded, you know, just through their fundraising. And the work they do is just incredible. So this, I believe, is my fourth year. So every year they have a spinning marathon, this like three hours. And so we were already in the planning stages of that. And, you know, to have instructors out there to teach and they bring the kids out, and it’s just a it’s a beautiful community event. That’s

Hutson 6:00
so cool. What What was what attracted you to that? You know, community that that work that you enjoy? Um,

Angie 6:06
well, I actually, I had a friend at the time. Not, you know, we weren’t that close. And she used to come to another gym that I was that. And she had a child that went to Patterson’s and her child ended up passing away. And I ended up training her. So that’s kind of where my passion for Patterson’s was born because it benefited another family. Yes. And then I got asked to be on the committee. And I was like, Absolutely, yeah.

Hutson 6:37
Yeah, that’s really cool. Have you while on the committee and in? I mean, on board, wherever it is, have you found your expertise in front? How have you been wanting to use your expertise from trading? So obviously, I’m not to my personal training there. But how have you I’m sure there’s lots of crossover skills you’ve been able to tell provide them? Right, right?

Angie 6:57
Well, the way I have been my position on the committee has really been to, you know, gather the instructors for the event. And the planning leading up to that, and you know, getting the bikes there. We’ve done it the last few years, outdoors, you know, after COVID. So that’s been really cool. Just to do that. So that’s kind of my role with them. I do think after sponsorships for them as well, we all do that as a community. So it’s just using those community connections to help Patterson

Hutson 7:32
Yeah, that’s really neat. So we talked about goal setting, of course, and you’re in the fitness space, which is a lot of goal setting, I’d imagine. Absolutely. How are you someone who you would say likes to set your own personal goals? And that’s always been a part of your life? Have you learned to set your own goals? Because you’re doing with other people? Or is that something that’s still kind of outside your wheelhouse? Personally, I

Angie 7:59
kind of color outside the lines a little bit for myself? Do I have personal goals? Absolutely. And is that one of the first questions when you’re, you know, about to train someone, certainly you want to sit down and go over those goals with them so that they can see, you know, look back and see how far they’ve come? Yeah.

Hutson 8:20
Yeah. So do you? Do you find it with certain clients? It’s much easier to set goals versus other clients?

Angie 8:26
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Because some people are like me, and they don’t they color outside the lines. And it’s a little bit harder to get them, you know, to set their specific goals. And then other people, it’s ingrained in them. Sure. So it’s very easy for them.

Hutson 8:41
I’m sure a lot of folks that, you know, it’s a new year, and they’re probably thinking, I want to kind of get my life back on track. And oftentimes that revolves around health. Are there any tips that you could share, that you found specifically with those folks that are like kind of hard to nail down goals, or it’s hard for me to think of how to set them that you found that that have worked? Well. I

Angie 9:04
always use the approach and this is what I’ll tell people right off the cuff is you’re only gonna get out of it, what you’re willing to put into it. So that kind of encapsulates a, you know, if you have this big goal, you’ve got to take these steps to reach it for it to be attainable. Yeah.

Hutson 9:24
So we talk a lot about the seven life roles. One of those is health. And something that I don’t know if you’ve seen the weight of gold, Michael Phelps, and it’s really interesting documentary, but talking about these these athletes who they win gold medals, they achieve the highest level and then afterwards, they feel depressed. And one of the biggest things that we found do science and with the framework is that if you set the goal to be your individual life and then work backwards, then when you reach that pinnacle, if you will, it’s not a pinnacle, because I Actually, it’s just one more step do you find? Have you found that with your clients as well as when you can tie those goals to like kind of lifelong goals? That’s been helpful even to try that before?

Angie 10:09
Yeah, absolutely. And obviously, you know, we work on the short term goal versus the long term goal. And I think that can always be reinvented. Once you hit that level. It’s like, what’s the next goal that you have?

Hutson 10:24
Yeah, no, absolutely. That’s, that’s so interesting. I’m imagining like group settings different than personal obviously, I’ve done personal training for a long time, myself, never done group training outside of like with sports teams. Do you work on like, as a as a collective group trying to work towards some kind of goal? Do you ever talk about goals in that way? Have you found that to be productive? Yeah,

Angie 10:50
it really has, you can always do it in the general sense with a bigger group like that. Or whether it’s small group training or in a class setting. But I always like to add that element in. Because the biggest thing for me to see that I love to see whether it’s one on one or with a group, is people’s confidence grow within a gym setting,

Hutson 11:13
basically, in the community space. Yeah. So maybe that kind of leads me to my next question. Like I said, we’re New Year, people starting, then we know that much. I’m sure there’s a statistic out there of all the folks that don’t continue. What have you seen as like the number one blocker for folks who start strong, and then they fade away and you never see them? Again?

Angie 11:35
There’s not just one, I don’t think I think it can be change in life circumstances. It’s kind of what you’re saying to where they start off all gung ho, because it’s the new year, and then it becomes less of a priority for them. Something else takes that place. You know, just different things like that. Yeah.

Hutson 11:59
You know, I think back mentor told me this. And this, one of the truer things is, we find time for things that we value. Exactly. And it’s not that we don’t have the time is that we don’t value it enough to give it the time. I

Angie 12:13
say that all the time. We all have the same 24 hours. It’s what your priorities are.

Hutson 12:18
Yeah, yeah. And so for us to think about priorities, think about values and and oftentimes, we prioritize work, and sometimes family and wealth and the kind of we center especially American, these couple of couple few, we figure out the rest of our life, and then how that time needs to fit in in order for us to be a balanced kind of human Do you the wellness space is taking note taking over in a different kind of way, not just how you look or or eat, but kind of the whole person. Have you found that, that you’ve been able to translate that into your practice as well as you train folks?

Angie 12:55
Oh, absolutely. I think that’s huge. And I just within the last year, got a new certification, and it’s a women’s coaching specialty certification. So it’s had made me have another a different outlook on that. And like I was saying, it’s all about the confidence for me to see grow in people.

Hutson 13:19
Yeah. Well, tell me about that. That new, that new specific certification, how is that transformed your your training?

Angie 13:29
Well, I had already always had, excuse me, had the general you know, like PT certifications. And this one just appealed to me, because it went through. It was very comprehensive with every phase of life of a woman, right. And as a mother. And I don’t like to say the grandmother word I call myself GG. So we all say the G word. You know, I’ve been through all of these experiences. And it really to hone my skill that way to help other women walk through that. And one of the big things in that is like the biggest roadblocks for women, which goes back to what you were talking about priorities. We have to we’re so busy taking care of everybody else, that sometimes we lag behind taking care of ourselves. Yeah. So it’s really trying to teach them that it’s okay to put yourself as a priority.

Hutson 14:25
Yeah, I would imagine, in case you’re hitting on it, that I could see folks feeling guilty for taking care of themselves because that means they’re saying no to someone else, potentially. How have you combatted that to help them understand that? No, it’s important to Well, yeah,

Angie 14:44
I mean, you have to, it’s teaching them a new value system within their already existing one. And I’m not gonna say it works 100% correctly every time but it’s just trying to keep them up. accountable to their workouts and to their fitness. And we were talking about the goals, I mean, long term goals just for being able to move when you get even older into your 70s 80s. And yeah,

Hutson 15:13
I was thinking this morning on the way over here, I played sports in college and my whole I’ve been fascinated with health and wellness, and for a long time. And for the longest time it was with for a specific purpose, which was to be the best athlete I could be. And in some ways, it still is sometimes for golf, but I always laugh at myself, because for the first time, in a long time, it’s really about longevity, which is like, I guess, kind of buzzword now, which I’ve been fasting with for a long time and 36 I’m not like, you know, for a long, long time, but for a while longer before it was kind of hip to think about longevity, but working out for what you just said, and eating for what you just said and going to the sauna for what you said not so that I could be a peak performance, although that’s part of it. It’s more so that when I’m 80 or 90, I can enjoy all the things my great grandkids and not not be in a position where I can’t because they care myself now. Right, exactly. I’m assuming you probably see that with everyone. But I guess what you’re saying with with women as well, this idea of like taking care of self for your long term self.

Angie 16:22
And you know, what I’ve noticed a lot lately too, as you know, I’ve been in contact more with like women in their 70s and their 80s. And the ones that have been active most of their life. I mean, you can just see such an up. Absolutely. You can just see such a difference and how they move. Yeah, I mean, you know,

Hutson 16:49
ya know, my, my, my mother in law has been in the fitness world for me since the 80s. And she did aerobics, and she did Pilates. And she said all the things. Yeah, she’s doing yoga for a very long time now. And her for years and years and years she’s been working with I don’t know, I mean, 50s. And up, I would say for the most part, right. And it’s more on mobility and balance and quality of life, not on necessarily strength to be strong or flexible, to be flexible. But because it’s what it’s when it’s gonna give you the quality of life, you want exactly the thing, which I think is fascinating. Well,

Angie 17:30
I think the fitness industry, too, has evolved so much. And people recognize that now. Especially people of my generation, you know, it’s no, we’re not necessarily out trying to have our bikini bodies that we had, or that’s just, you know, probably a poor example. But it really is to be strong and to move.

Hutson 17:56
Do functional strength, I think is the word that, you know, I’ve seen oftentimes referred to, which is like, can you carry your groceries inside? Right? Well,

Angie 18:04
I’m a very functional trainer. So it’s really kind of funny that you mentioned that because, you know, that’s my approach. Oh, interesting, the very beginning. You know, obviously, you assess people to see how they move, you look for maybe where there’s an imbalance or an area that they need to work on. Have them stand on one foot, you know, close your eyes, do those kinds of things, because that is what will be beneficial to them. Yeah, you know, in the future.

Hutson 18:32
So you were talking about goal setting and setting up some goals at the beginning, your clients so they can see kind of visual representation of where they came from, which we know is like, how you release your positive chemicals is by See, like actively seeing the results in a visual way, not just physical, but in actual visual way. In a functional standpoint, how do you set goals where you can visually see or is it because you can talk to them about like, Okay, well when work on balance, and how long can you send them on? I was curious, like, how does, how does that fit? Because it’s obvious. You know, growing up and working out with sports is like, okay, my goal is to squat 500 pounds, well, I can visually get there and say I’m getting closer. But when it comes to other functional things, how do you how do you see those?

Angie 19:22
Well, you know, it’s funny because I have the perfect example of that with a client of mine. And I actually inherited her but she had she had an Achilles injury. And she came back from that and she wanted to have enough mobility and strength. She teaches younger children. So to be able to squat down on the floor, and you know, get back up without any problem. That was part of one of her goals. And now looking back a few years later, I think we’ve been training together maybe three years she’ll she’ll still Bring that up. She’ll say, I remember when I couldn’t even do that when we first started,

Hutson 20:05
right? Like, can you believe that that’s where we started was just like, sitting down and standing up and now we’ll go

Angie 20:11
forward. Right? And she’s, you know, she’s in her 50s. She’s active. So I mean, it was just, you know, coming back from that injury and, you know, trying to get back to where she could comfortably do those things again, yeah.

Hutson 20:24
If you want to discover how the ideal lives founder, Mark Condon quit smoking, shed 80 pounds, established a thriving logistics company, and embrace the challenges of becoming an Ironman triathlete, all things the framework we referenced in today’s episode, order your copy of his inspiring book, the ideal life today, within a website or any major retailer, begin your journey towards a fulfilling life filled with purpose and achievement. So you said kind of tongue in cheek you got in the business because it was a way to have free exercise. So have you have you always been interested in health? Um,

Angie 21:02
I think I was busy being a mom. You know, so that really, it was probably more of an escape for me back then. So honest, no, I

Hutson 21:15

Angie 21:16
I’ve always loved like, taking classes. And I’m working out when I was a teenager. Back in the day, my mom did like the step aerobics class, I think it was in a church. And I was hired to be like the babysitter of the children while they were taking the class, which meant I could take the classes for free at the time, I guess I was always looking for free. That really doesn’t sound very good. So that’s really when I started to dabble in it. And I would like a lot of people like the people, we’re talking about people that fall off, you know, I would get interested in something for a while on the fad thing. It’s exciting. And yeah, man. It’s like, yeah, and but, you know, once I got into the field, and really got, you know, more involved in saw how beneficial it was, then yes, that’s where my interests grew a little bit more. And it was just a different phase of my life. Because they, you know, had had children. And they were a little bit they were in school. I didn’t know I was gonna have another one after that. So I needed an interest in a hobby. Yeah. Which is what it started out as, don’t you I kind of fell into it. And then it turned into a career. Yeah,

Hutson 22:37
yeah. So being mom was passion, but also needing something to do to refer yourself like you’re talking Exactly. Finding something for yourself, right? And be accepting that is known. That’s good. Yeah. Cuz you can’t you if my water cup is full, I can give you some of it right, like, right, you’re saying, um, you got to fill your cup up in order to pour yourself out? And I think

Angie 22:58
that comes with hindsight, you know, looking back on that, I don’t think it was necessarily intentional at the time, right. And I’m sure that I had those feelings, too, like we were talking about, you know, women, or people in general not wanting to prioritize themselves. I’m talking from a mom’s perspective. Yeah. There were probably times when I did feel guilty, and probably there was ebbs and flows where I stopped doing that. I’m talking prior to, you know, being in the business. So I’m sure I took those breaks myself as well. Yeah,

Hutson 23:35
no, I think that’s I think it’s very common, especially as I mean, parents, I think it’s easy to we want to be selfless, right? I mean, that’s we’re designed that way. And we find joy in that for sure. And we find joy in putting our selves behind our kids and our spouse and those things. That’s good. On the flip side, we’re human, and we have our own needs. And we have our own, you know, life roles that need filling. But it can be hard, it can be hard to not feel guilty, I think no matter who you are, right? Exactly, I think in when and if you’re someone who does a lot of things for yourself, then you’re not filling up your family bucket, which means you’re going to get that you’re not going to be filled up there, which will then lead to problems, right. So what if you’re not not filling them all up?

Angie 24:25
And like I said, for me, it’s easy to look back on that Hindsight is 2020. Right. Did I know that when I was in the midst of it? Probably not. But now that I do, I like to pass that knowledge along to others. Yeah. Do

Hutson 24:42
you ever get clients in when you kind of sit down to set some goals and they their goals are like outrageously ambitious and you just know like, this is not This is too much. Oh, yeah.

Angie 24:57
I mean, that’s just an unrealistic expect Patients right when they start, they’re going to set themselves up for failure. Right. And that’s not exactly how I would say it, I would just probably plant the idea. So their mind would shift, we would flip the script that way. So it’d be like, well, you know, that’s, that’s a great goal, that maybe we need to think about. Do you know, are we going to be able to achieve that in the time that you need

Hutson 25:21
to? Yeah, yeah. So helping them set? realistic, achievable goal, right. Within within the timeframe? Absolutely. Yeah. And so we talked about achieving kinds of goals, ones that are time bound, and ones are not really time bound. I think it’s helpful because it’s good to dream, like we need those dreams, because then all the other goals can follow into those, although all those other ones can be a stepping stone towards the dream. But if the dream moves to a time on one, yeah, it’s unachievable. And then and then the reverse happens, as opposed to being rewarded for achieving it. You get the negative feeling of well,

Angie 25:56
I failed. Yeah, exactly. And you never want to set anybody up for failure. No,

Hutson 25:59
I think that working out is like, I think one of the best analogies for like so many things in life, I talk to my kids about this all the time of a failure and working out I mean, you know, like the science behind building muscle is you tear it, and then your body’s like, I don’t want to tear myself again, I get stronger, so it doesn’t happen again. And it’s such a good analogy for just like life, I mean, when you fail, it’s the opportunity there has to be like a muscle is like the only way to grow is by kind of failing and working out and training folks. I’m sure there’s moments where people feel defeated, probably because not seeing results fast enough, or whatever might be, how do you kind of coach them into persevering or continuing forward even though when it feels kind of, you know, sticky? Yeah,

Angie 26:45
I think you just have to maintain a positive attitude with them. And kind of like I said, I not to use the same terminology, but you kind of have to flip the script with them a little bit. And you know, results take time, and there are going to be setbacks. But you need to keep plugging away at it. Because you’re only going to get out of what you’re willing to put into it.

Hutson 27:10
Something I’ve always thought about. You know, I’m sure things are different now. But growing up when I was working out with was actually the ROB short at fishery fitness for four years. I would see him in there. And he’d be in there from like, 5am to like, 7pm. Yeah, I mean, any sort of gym and everything, but he’s like working his tail off. A lot of personal trainers are in there. A lot. I mean, lots of hours, way more than 40 hours a week. And I would always think like two things like one like, how do you not get burnt out? And two, when do you work out? Because you have these clients coming in? So to kind of to your point, I’m curious, how do you find time to fill your, you know, personal training up? Like, how do you how do you like when you find your time to work out?

Angie 27:57
For myself? Yeah, that’s what that’s about it. You know, I made a commitment to myself when I was teaching was kind of different, right? Because when you’re up there teaching a class and you’re physically doing it with them, you kind of get you know, you kind of do I mean, you’re not, you know, there are some certifications, you go through that say, this is not about you, it’s not your walk out. But inevitably, if you’re teaching six or seven spin classes a

Hutson 28:22
week, you’re gonna get some workout.

Angie 28:24
Yeah, so I had a big shift, because I started backing off of my class load, obviously, because like I said, I wear multiple hats within the company. So I do group fitness management, teach classes and train clients at more than one location. And I was sliding, you know, I was like, when the workday was over, I wanted to get out of there. I do, I have had a trainer, a good friend of mine, a couple of good friends of mine. So that’s easy access for me. As a matter of fact, I was just thinking about that this morning, I really need to, you know, get back in the groove with one of them. But for me, because I have been so steeped in that gym. I made the decision and commitment to myself to step outside of work. So I have a place where I go and practice yoga. And that’s become my leader space. Well, it’s my space. And, you know, honestly, and I believe in strength training, too. I love to lift weights. I know that sounds strange to some people, but the strength training really is where it’s at. For me like with the yoga, it’s it’s moving your body weight. And it’s also you know, implement Yeah, the mindfulness, the breath work. So that’s been huge for me.

Hutson 29:50
So you said you’re you’re in the management side as well. How long I’ve been doing that

Angie 29:56
for a long time but cuz once I started, you know, teaching, there was a group fitness manager that left kind of abruptly. And the owner at the time was like, Can you do it? I really didn’t know what I was doing, to be honest, and things certainly have changed. I’m trying to think probably about 1617 years, I wasn’t, I had not been teaching classes. Before this

Hutson 30:31
sounds like a thing with you, then you just fall backwards. Right? I mean,

Angie 30:34
yes, yeah. I mean, God just lead you on a path. And you know, I just have, have went with it. And all these, you know, different doors kept opening. And I know, too, when you know, when one thing, one door closes, another opens. But the reverse is true as well, sometimes you have to be willing to let go of something you’re holding right now. Yeah, to in order to open up your poem to receive something out. So that’s kind of where the shift that I’ve made within the last several years, is like, Okay, I’m juggling all these plates. Yeah, but which one is really the the plate that I need to be, you know, holding up the most. We

Hutson 31:15
talk about deliberate practice. And that reminds me of that is, you know, we can’t juggle that many plates for too long, it’s impossible, right? We either will do them for too long and get burnout, or we don’t do them well, or they’ll fall and whatever. And so finding that that balance of picking the one thing to fully focus on, and that unlocks energy to be able to do other things. But if you try and put all your energy in all the things, you have no energy left for anything? Well, not exactly. So have you found yourself really enjoying the management side as much as you thought you would?

Angie 31:52
I love it, because I still am interacting with people. You know, and, and the special events that we have, like within the class setting, whether it’s a launch or you know, just kicking off a new program, where the community being involved in that kind of stuff. And we do the silly stuff, too, right. So you know, we’ll dress up at Christmas time and teach classes, I’ve worn a gamut of Halloween costumes throughout the years. That part of it, I do love and it’s afforded me too, because I do a lot of that admitted straight of work at home. So I kind of sandwich it in between, you know, the training hours and the class time.

Hutson 32:37
Yeah. Which isn’t always available for trainers. Right? Right. Have you ever thought about you know, not working for a company for doing on your own before, like, you know, having your own training space and doing it in other people’s homes or in your own

Angie 32:56
right. And I do offer that service, like, you know, I don’t have my own space outside of the gym, just because it’s where I’m very comfortable. But I definitely, you know, explore the options and go outside if somebody wants me to come to their home. So I just recently moved from West Ashley to Somerville at the end of October. So that’s been a big shift. And I’m in this big neighborhood. So I have lots of people. Right? Yeah. And lots of women and lots of opportunity. Yeah. I don’t know that I would want my own space. Just because at this point in my life, I don’t want to, you know, right. Because it’s a lot when you have big overhead. Yeah, right. It really is. So I, you know, I am available for that as well. Just the one on one. I have a boot camp that I started at these landing rec center. We’re two years old now. Cool. So that’s been a lot of fun, because it’s a community thing, right. And we’ve added those, I’ve got some the same people that have been coming for two years. So that’s a whole nother, you know, just like growth process. And they have formed this community. And I love

Hutson 34:10
that. Yeah, no, I was just, we were talking about community building, and you seem to be a builder yourself. And the joy of working from home. It’s like, man, it seems like there’s opportunity there, especially now you’re in a big neighborhood. Like, I mean, right. Folks want ease a lot of it. Right. And there’s a chance to kind of build I don’t know, just curious sounds like you’re doing it and sounds like it’s going well. Yeah. Have you have you had a chance or is there opportunity to to use your expertise inside of I forget the school. I’m sorry. Patterson’s Patterson’s.

Angie 34:43
Yeah. Not as far as like, they’ve got their own occupational therapist or physical therapist within, you know, for the children. So not in that kind of roam

Hutson 34:59
you Yeah, I just was curious, you know, with your love of the school and then obviously your your expertise and in fitness if there was a way to to cross over there, but sounds like you’re doing really cool stuff there. So you’ve lots of children are any of them into fitness? No, not one. Not.

Angie 35:17
Most of them followed their father’s footsteps and are in food and beverage.

Hutson 35:24
Yeah. Food and beverage.

Angie 35:28
You know what I mean? Like, yeah, yeah,

Hutson 35:30
I have. I have two, two kids, and I’m always curious, like, you know, when they’re young, and they’re like, I want to do what you do. I’m like, you don’t even know what I do. Right? You don’t even know but I appreciate that. You want to do that and that is exciting for you. But you know, carve your own path. That’s so good. But what other hobbies do you have outside of work?

Angie 35:49
I teach yoga is a big one. Bicycling I mean, I love to you know, we’ve got bikes during the pandemic. And I hadn’t had one in years you know, not an outdoor I mean head spinning so much. So I really enjoy that

Hutson 36:07
you have any favorite routes you go on?

Angie 36:10
Well, we did the Spanish moss trail and Beaufort this summer and that was

Hutson 36:15
really beautiful. I haven’t is it how long does that take

Angie 36:19
that 116 miles it’s really pretty we

Hutson 36:23
on New Year’s Eve as a family we biked 10 miles and CQR like let’s set a goal for the year two bike 100 miles but we need some fun ones like this are a little bit different and kind of like an experience like we’re gonna go and bike you know a large chunk of time but a biking so fun. It

Angie 36:42
is so fun and just being outside and yeah, I love it. Yeah,

Hutson 36:46
well you get to see you get to see everything with different perspective even though you’re going pretty quickly

Angie 36:52

Hutson 36:54
no so we yeah on the receipt we did that and I we have my wife and I got bikes I don’t know five years ago now more than eight years ago. It’s like a like a city cruise or whatever which is fine. And I had my hands in my pockets because it was freezing cold outside and I don’t do cold and my seat my seat flew off so I like jumped off starfish and land my kind of bike kept on going oh it was like a magic trick you know I can never do it again in my life bike went off like hit you know hit the tree whatever think it is he’ll put the bike seat back on but I was like this is a sign I didn’t do bicycle if we’re doing 100 Miles like get on my bike.

Angie 37:36
That would not be a good idea and I love the green light to Green was phenomenal. I love the Greenway.

Hutson 37:41
Yeah, we greenways is a great is a great one we haven’t we’ve walked it a bunch, we never biked it, we probably should as a family, I think it’d be a good one because space to to do it. Well, you know, you talked a lot about how, what keeps us from reaching our goals from a fitness perspective, health perspective, what have you found? It could be the same thing? Have you found anything else that folks that you’ve seen show up every week, week in week out? And then hitting goals? Like what are some traits they have, that maybe some folks can, can can do on their own?

Angie 38:16
I would say consistency, I mean consistency. And you know, being patient with yourself and your progress. And realistic. We talked about, you know, people, you know, setting these unrealistic goals that you know, they’re not going to attain. So just having those goals that are attainable. And I just consistency is key. Yeah, just showing up. And it’s it’s also recognizing all the elements. Okay, so if it’s somebody that’s coming in, I don’t care if they’re coming in. And their goal is to lose 20 pounds. Or if it’s to gain you’ve got to have that, that piece of the puzzle. That’s to make them understand how important the nutrition part is. Yeah. And you know, yeah, and you can come see your trainer three times a week. But if you’re gonna go off the rails the rest of the time. You’re just spinning your wheels, you’re never gonna get anywhere.

Hutson 39:13
Yeah. Yeah. You know, and just hearing you say, like, the 20 pounds thing, which I think is like, the most natural thing for a lot of folks is like, I lose weight, which is probably true, right? But I think like, at least from what we film from like the the science perspective with goal setting is like when that goal was tied to like the why, like the Why do you lose 20 pounds? If it’s just to look good? Like, okay, let’s talk like that’s, that’s not going to keep you coming back. Right? And why why really, and then when that can be tied to a value if there’s maybe family maybe it’s why I want to, you know, sit down with the kids I’m teaching well now. Now we’re getting somewhere. Exactly. It’s the why of the goal, I think is just as important as what the goal is. Yeah, we

Angie 39:57
actually have that it’s funny because I did did a couple of fitness assessment this morning? And these are newer ones that we’re doing? And we have that on there? What is your why? Oh, I love that’s one of the questions to ask them. What is your why? And you know, the few that I had today are the ones that I was saying are in their 70s. And to stay active. Yeah. I mean that, you know, why? Why are you doing this? What it’s not that they have some specific goal other than to just stay as healthy as possible for the rest of their life to keep moving? Yeah,

Hutson 40:31
was like to run a marathon. That’s fantastic. Why? Well, because I think it’d be cool. Well, that’s not gonna keep it going. Might but then what then what then what after that? Because you’re going to if you’re committed to it, and then what map not trying to but what’s the purpose? I think that that’s so much, much helps you, my kids, and I were watching limitless using limitless before. It’s phenomenal show on Disney plus. But he’s putting himself basically through all this like crazy tests. And I think I think I can’t remember I listen to podcast with him. And David A TIA, talking about like, kind of the show and I think originally was more like push himself to the limit. And then the more he got into it, the more it kind of turned into why actually speaking longevity, that kind of like longevity, like, how can I have the best longest life and he’s like, you know, he played Thor, he’s like this incredibly fit guy. And he’s talking about how I want to live long and you look at him, you think, well, if anyone’s gonna as long assumed to you, but in reality is that much stress and how to maintain all of those things. But there’s so much more than just the way you look. And nutrition is such a big part of that. But so as you know, all the things sleep and

Angie 41:40

Hutson 41:44
And imagining as your client base has shifted, and as you mentioned you having more and more women and sounds like you have the age ranges on all the older side, three of all ages, but have you seen some of those areas outside of the traditional thinking of like just how you look and eat easier? Like you said a little bit, it’s easier for them to get on board with like sleep or stress management and things like that. Are some of those things like yeah, I get that? Or do you find it difficult sometimes to kind of quote unquote, educate them on like, why that really matters?

Angie 42:22
I don’t necessarily think I find it difficult to educate them on that, or for them to grasp it. Because that’s the foundational habits. You know what I mean, for anybody? Yeah, male, female, it doesn’t matter. All of that ties in to your health and wellness.

Hutson 42:38
Yeah. Do you find yourself talking a lot about habits as you talk about wellness? Absolutely.

Angie 42:44
And I think habits go hand in hand. You know, establishing those habits go hand in hand with being consistent. And it doesn’t always have to be in fact, I prefer it not to be that they’re taking away something. Add in, you know, two more glasses of water a day. Let’s add in that extra protein I

Hutson 43:06
just didn’t know, right?

Angie 43:09
Yeah, I just I try. I don’t want anybody to view it as a negative change, but more as a positive change. And that, you know, they they get to do it looks better if you get to do something versus Hey, now you can you can’t ever have that scoop of ice cream again. Right? I mean, you got to have things in moderation. I believe in living life. Yeah, I believe in enjoying life. And not being super extreme. Because once again, that’s not sustainable, not realistic. It’s not sustainable.

Hutson 43:41
No, very few people live that way. And they’re not normal. They’re not a kid and that’s and you’re looking like That’s why your Tiger Woods or whatever, like you can do that. That’s not a normal kind of personality that can that can do all that. Right. Well, thanks so much for coming on. It’s been a joy that to meet you and hear from you. And thanks for all the work you’re doing. Of

Angie 44:03
course. Thank you so much.

Episode 6:

Navigating Life’s Challenges: A Conversation with Sam and Angelica

Sam Clements and Angelica Frontz, Founders of Doors to Dream

Join us for an intimate conversation with Sam and Angelica as they candidly share their personal journeys, triumphs, and challenges. Discover how, despite their diverse backgrounds, they unite in their dedication to assisting young students through their non-profit, Doors To Dream. Tune in as Sam and Angelica delve into the profound impact of human connection in this heartfelt episode.

Sam Clements is the Executive Director and Angelica Frontz is the Program and Communications Director for Doors to Dream. Follow them on Instagram @doorstodream

Hutson 0:13
The joy in goal setting podcast is proud to be partnered with and brought to you by the ideal life. The ideal life offers a multimedia platform that is focused on cultivating a growth mindset. Here you’ll find a supportive community of coaches, valuable online resources and transformative courses aimed at helping you lead a more gratifying and joyful life. Ready to take the next step in your personal growth journey. Visit the ideal to explore their wealth and resources and join the vibrant growing community today. Welcome to the drawing goal setting podcast where we empower individuals to discover their purpose, achieve their goals and experience a joyful life through encouraging conversations. I’m your host Hudson dots. Today, we’re sitting down with Sam and Angelica from doors to dream. We discuss overcoming new challenges impacting others and how to navigate changing careers.

Sam and Angelica, welcome to the show. I’m so happy you’re here.

Sam 1:15
Thank you so much for having us. We’re excited to be here.

Hutson 1:18
Yeah, well, this is our first time dealing with two guests. So I’m excited to see kind of how this goes, how we how we can make this work. So a question I’m asking folks is, you know, we’re recording in January, New Year, oftentimes means exciting possibilities. And also, you know, some uncertainty of what the year is going to bring. What What is one thing that y’all are most excited about for this year? And one thing that maybe is uncertain or give us a little bit of hesitation?

Sam 1:48
That’s a fantastic question. So I think for me, I try to divvy up my life into two things, right, you got the personal and you got the professional. So from the professional standpoint, with our organization, I’m really excited about bringing more people into the fold. I think we’re going to expand this year and have more teammates, have more students. And I think that’s going to be a really, it’s going to be a very exciting thing for us. Because, you know, that’s that’s our goal, right? Personally, honestly, it came a lot from the into the ideal training of, I’m really excited to be more consistent with my goals, I tend to be the person who sets really lofty ones. And then, you know, every month and a half be like, oh, shoot, I need to get back on that. So this year, I’m going to make a very firm intention of being more consistent with that. As far as uncertain goes. I, you know, I think right now I’m in that very like head in the clouds moment where I’m still feeling very, like optimistic about what 2024 has to bring. So I don’t have any uncertainties yet. Talk to me about a month and a half. And I’m sure plenty of things will come up. Professionally, though, I guess the number one thing is we had some really great progress in 2023. And I think the uncertainty is can we do what we did last year, but better, right? And can we step it up a notch can we level up. And and you know, the bar has been set, now we have to match it and exceed it. So that’s that’s mine.

Angelica 3:23
I don’t know what to say after that, that was really good. I like the idea of like separating into like personally and professionally. Professionally, I’m excited and looking forward to this year of seeing our eighth graders graduate. A lot of them have been with us since the beginning of our program, and then seeing them transition into being freshmen in high school. Just crazy. So that will just feel very full circle. And we will have had three years under our belt of having had launched our pathways leadership program. So that just that gets me very excited to see how that will look and how students transition into our high school program or what they end up choosing. Also, having a new teammate and becoming a team of three will be epic. Bringing a new person into the fold and just whatever gifts they have their passions, their skill sets, and how that will change our dynamic and what we’re able to do. And just another person that students can connect with. And then personally, I’m, I’m just excited for all the things I’m still a newlywed, sort of I have a year under my belt and so like I just love, I love being married. So like that is something to look forward to just having adventures together. And I feel like life just is uncertain. I’m not sure my head’s there in the clouds. I’m like every day like there could just be something in life. You know, I have friends that have lost parents and stuff. So just like I think just taking things day by day and yet being optimistic and joyful.

Hutson 4:59
That’s all Awesome. I love hearing about exciting new things. And the uncertainty I think sometimes even helps us kind of like refocus a little bit and make sure that we’re inside our guardrails, and we’re focusing on the things that, you know, we want to make sure that we’re focusing in on. Well, you know, I love to hear where you’re from, what school you went to, and what you’re currently dealing with your life.

Sam 5:23
Yeah, so I’m from Athens, Georgia. So big Georgia Bulldog fan growing up and loved growing up there. It was an awesome, awesome experience living in a college town is a little bit of a different vibe than a lot of other places. But I absolutely loved it. And then when I graduated from high school, I went to University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, which was one of the better decisions I’ve ever made. And it’s funny, all my family, my mom went to Duke, which is hysterical, because my whole family or Duke fans, and I’m the lone soldier on the other side. Yeah, that makes one interesting. Hi, ABS, it’s it’s always fun at Thanksgiving, that’s for dang short. So once I graduated from Carolina, I was going to be a doctor. That was like kind of the whole game plan. That was one of my goals. And then life kind of shifted for me. And I realized that it wasn’t truly my passion. And I wanted to take it in a different direction. I always knew I wanted to help people, but I wasn’t quite sure where that was, if it wasn’t medicine. And we’re actually talking about this on the way over like, it was a very scary thing to jump from this plan I’ve had since I was four, into this world of education. So I applied for Teach for America, and got it. And you know, don’t know how but I must have sweet talk someone into letting me in, and was an eighth grade science teacher in Nashville, and love every second of it, or at least most of it. And enough to when I moved to Charleston to be with my now wife, I wanted to stay in education space. And that’s where I found doors to dream, this nonprofit that allowed me to be in the education space. But in a little bit of a different lens. I wasn’t in the classroom every day, which I do miss. But I think that with this current situation, I’m able to make more of an impact on the student as a whole, rather than the student as an academic, which has been a really exciting transition for me, what it

Hutson 7:24
sounds like, fits with your initial desire to be a doctor. Yeah, it’s kind of it not just academia, and a subject, but really the whole person and actually figure out how to transform them into being being the best version themselves, which I love. Oh, 100%.

Sam 7:40
And teachers, like, being a teacher was a was such an educational experience. For me. I learned a whole lot about myself during those two years. But I found I found myself very, feeling very limited on what I was able to accomplish. And I, you know, I consider myself very much a people person. And I’m now able a little bit more to connect with students more on the human level, rather than the teacher student dynamic, which has led I think, to some great relationships and some great outcomes. Yeah,

Hutson 8:14
getting out of the classroom gives you a different opportunity to speak into different areas of their life. Yeah. In a different kind of trust.

Sam 8:23
It’s not just science class and plate tectonics and all these other wonderful things. It’s, you know, how are you on an emotional level? How are you on a personal level? How can I support your individual goals and, you know, teachers, they have 34 kids in a classroom, they don’t have the time or the capacity to do that. Whereas now I instead have a wide breadth, I can go into greater depth. That’s

Hutson 8:45
awesome. Well jump more than a little bit perfect Angelica asking the question one more time from where are you from? What school you went to, and what are you doing now?

Angelica 8:52
Okay. I’m from Charlotte, North Carolina. And I moved to Charleston about four. Oh, my gosh, four years ago. It’s crazy this month. And it was one of the bravest transitions I made just being out of my comfort zone. I lived a man I lived in Charlotte my entire life. And so going into a community that was very different, not metropolitan, very Beach County. And everyone knows everybody here was was a huge leap. But it’s one that I’m glad I did. And I did not attend college. But I graduated high school and I did some certificates and trainings after that. My passion that I discovered was coaching. So actually got a health coach certificate that’s a focus mainly on health but also was a life coach training and that connected with my desire you said earlier, which was to help people become the best version of themselves. I think we’ve all know what it feels like to be in a riot or just have like that inner person that is just like your worst enemy and like self seven touches you from achieving your goals. And so I had been in that read and wanting to get out and I end what once I felt that that joy of oh my gosh, like I can do these things if I just take one small step in our direction each day. And then just wanting to help others do that. Then actually, when I moved to Charleston, I felt called to ministry. So I was a children’s minister at a small church, I wore many hats there anytime. It’s like a grassroots organization. But I felt, and I was alive and by pouring into the next generation, and it was full circle for me a nanny before that. And actually, before that, I worked in sales. And to me that was like I was helping people find they were looking for find a home or like whatever it was, but it was so much about numbers longer I was in it. And it was very superficially about people. So I ran away quickly. Because I was like, I can’t do this, I’m not going to strive here, we’re not aligned. So when I was working with the youth, I just love being able to just pour that life into them, and see them grow, and be with their families, and also make it fun. Yeah, when you’re working with kids, you have fun. And then I felt called to another age group. So it’s really cool when I found the opportunity for doors to dream, because I’d be working with middle schoolers and high schoolers. So having like this, all I like now this all encompassing skill set of how to communicate with a three year old, a 11 year old and a 16 year old, which are jurist and developmental changes, like you’re not talking about the same thing. Right. And whose last question

Hutson 11:48
you nailed it. Yes. Yeah, I want to jump in and doors a dream education a little while, but both of y’all mentioned scary transitions. Yours from medicine and education and yours from metropolitan city girl to Charleston and the like. So I’m curious. When you’re, when you’re faced with those kind of big transitions, how’d you handle them? Where did you handle those? Well, looking back, if you did, what are some what are some tips and techniques that you that you may be used? Or looking back? Maybe you did? And and you wished you would have done some things differently?

Sam 12:32
It’s a great question I for me, so my dad is a doctor and you know, still practices. And that was a very big part of my life. My childhood, I remember, or I don’t remember, my mom tells me that when I was four years old, I wanted to be a doctor. So I could go help my dad, like that was like the dream from when I was three feet tall until I was 22. So it was it was my identity to a large extent. And I bet you if you asked a lot of my high school friends, and they’re like, Would you believe that Sam is now in a nonprofit world, they would be like, and not a chance. So it was a very, very big transition for me. And it happens, you know, with the beautiful timing of seeing a summer before senior year of college, and so plenty of time to figure it out. I think the I think I handled it well. I knew what in my gut that it wasn’t meant to be for medicine. Like that was not my path. And so I was very

Hutson 13:35
let me let me ask sorry to interrupt. But yeah, since you’re three, that’s your identity. Yeah. And then you know, it’s not take me take me a little bit deeper into that. How do you how do you go from your three? Yes, who you are, ya know, what was that? Like?

Sam 13:51
It’s a cool story. So the second best job I’ve ever had behind doors. The dream is I was a hiking counselor at a camp out in Colorado chili, Colorado camps. Second best job. If I could do it every day, I would definitely do it every day because I got the hike with high school kids every single day for a summer. And the camp itself is, you know, a higher end camp where you normally have people of means coming there and sending their kids there for three weeks to eight weeks. And you know, it’s it’s a big deal. But they do give out scholarships every every year and in. I think it was the July session, we had a kid named Manny who was from the south side of Chicago, did not look did not talk and did not have nearly the same like world experience than a lot of our students. Or a lot of our campers, excuse me. So Manny was there and Manny like just dove all the way in. Like I remember the second day we were on a camp the sky pond and Um, it’s a nine mile hike. He’s coming from the south side of Chicago. He’s now at 10,000 feet elevation day to the boy is struggling, like he is not having a good time. He’s in the back with me like he is just, you know, gasping for air. And I continue to ask him like, hey, like, do you want to slow down? Like, I’ll tell Mitch up there like it will slow down for it’s all good. And he kept saying, no, no, like, I’m good, I’m good. This is nothing, this is nothing. And just like grind it for 12 miles, or whatever the mic was, I think it’s like, ate up a pack. So good. 60 Manhyia. And just grind it and was just so happy to be there. And he kind of approached the whole July kind of like that he did everything. He went mountain biking, he went camping, he went backpacking, he went hiking, he did anything that was available to him, because he’s, he’s from a neighborhood that, you know, this is all brand new, none of it, right. It’s not, it’s not even within the realm of possibility for him. But now he has a chance, shoot, I’m going to take advantage of it. So fast forward four weeks, it’s the end of the camp session. And for the 15 year olds, you get to vote who comes back as a counselor in training, right. And I think everyone can kind of see how the story ends. But there are kids there who have been in that camp since they were five, up until they’re 16. And those are typically the ones who get the CIT role. But Manny was one of the people that got elected, like, oh, my gosh, are you kidding me? It’s crazy. So what I saw in that moment, I get a little emotional talking about it, is this kid from the south side, got a shot and got an opportunity and took advantage of that. And it’s so and like, it drastically changed his life. And that’s when I was like, Oh, this is where I belong, right? Like this is where I need to be like, I need to be giving these kids in from this particular demographic and opportunity to live their dreams to succeed, chase whatever they want to chase. And knowing that if you just give them a chance that they’re going to tackle it, they’re going to attack it, they’re going to be excited about being there, rather than you know, maybe take it for granted or not understand the wealth that that person has from opportunities and chances. So long story many totally shifted. I don’t even know if Manny knows this, but he totally shifted the course of my life towards the youth development space rather than than medicine.

Hutson 17:31
If you want to discover how the ideal lives founder Mark Condon quit smoking, shed 80 pounds, established a thriving logistics company and embrace the challenges of becoming an Ironman triathlete, all things the framework we referenced in today’s episode, order your copy of his inspiring book, the ideal life today, within our website, or any major retailer, begin your journey towards a fulfilling life filled with purpose and achievement. Yeah, it was a really interesting lesson for I think, I mean, everyone, I mean, whether you’re whether you’re 1215 35 or 55, or 70, I think what’s interesting that I’m hearing is is that you identity you thought was a medicine or didn’t it really was in your values your parents instilled, which is helping people sure you just assumed that meant doctor, but then you were exposed to other things that ignited a different kind of passion for the same value, which is people and well being and helping them. Yeah. And then it was like, Okay, let’s just kind of reorient over here. So I mean, not belittling, sure big shift, because it is a big shift. But I think it’s an interesting lens to kind of think of how oftentimes, we think of jobs as identities in who we are in that. So we have to follow versus values and passions. And there’s lots of jobs inside of those that fit us at different stages of life, too, as we get going.

Sam 18:56
Yeah, I think I think for me, like, I knew what was going to fill my cup, right. Like it was the act of helping was the act of being of service to people. I just have a different fountain than I thought I was going to have. So my cup is still filled, just in a different way. Yeah. The shift itself, I think I just got lucky. I think I applied for TFA. And I happen to apply at the right time and happened to talk to the right guy. And I think it all kind of aligned for me. And I took that kind of as a sign of like, okay, like, we’re doing

Hutson 19:27
this. Yeah, it was still a big jump, though. Oh, my goodness. Like, yeah, it all works out in the end, like you’re saying, and I’m sure you worked your tail off all these things. But nonetheless, it’s it’s scary to jump into something new and I mean, the jumping into a new city. I mean, that’s not It’s not easy. And for folks that, you know, might be thinking the same thing of like, it’s time to kind of move on. I don’t know how, how would you approach it? What was it like for you?

Angelica 19:57
I was excited. I was relieved Yeah, it was actually in November that I that I visited this the beach first in the city, I think that’s important before you move somewhere to visit it. And I felt so much peace and excitement for it also, my, my immediate family was living there at the time. So that was also a huge plus, but not an entire reason to move to new city, the company I was working with at the time sold, so new management took over. So it was like this perfect ceiling of like this, it’s time for a new chapter, a new place. The place I was, Charlotte at the time just felt like, like if I was a farmer, just the soil was just old. And I needed new soil to grow. So January took the leap, I was excited, optimistic. And then like a huge plummet happened like four weeks later. And I was like, so low, I hit like a major depression, I hadn’t found a new job yet. I was unemployed for the first time. Like, you know, I was like filing unemployment because of lack of work. And I was like, this is awful. Like, I’m a worker, I want to be involved, I want to be in community. And I just was not fulfilled by any means. And so say like those who are wanting to move one visit at first and find community, go to churches there go to community groups, like look at Facebook pages, like try to find your people as soon as possible, because it’s so much more about the place. And the location. I’m sorry, it’s so much more about the people, then the place and the location that people make, make the space. So thankfully, I actually ended up being connected in a church, which is where I would ironically, that would have an opening for children’s ministers. It was like this beautiful merging, it was like this, like God just knew the steps. And they were all and I was just I was along for the ride. And so

Hutson 21:56
So you mentioned kind of hitting your rock bottom, if you will depression. How did you stay afloat? How do you keep going forward? And how do not let that tail spin into something even deeper and worse?

Angelica 22:12
How did I let that not. So it’s funny because I was living on an island at the time, I was like, that’s how I feel like I’m literally alone on an island. I still had, I still have really good friends in Charlotte. And one of the things that kept me afloat was staying connected to them. And I remember my friend, she just said to me, she was like, I remember what she said, actually, it’s kind of like Maya Angelou style, like people remember more of how you made them feel than what you said. But it was along the lines of like, you’re going to get through this, like, you just have to get up. Like, you just gotta, you just gotta get up. Like, you can stay here and be stuck and become cement in this situation. But like, you just got to get up, this is just a part of your story. And shortly after that, was was actually was when so many things started to change for me. So I just

Hutson 23:06
kind of goes back to community community. The framework, we talked about the seven life roles, and community is one of them. And and it’s so frequent. And so common in our culture, I think to like when we think of life roles, I think people are like, of course, there’s work and there’s wealth and there’s family and I think majority would start with it and be pushed them they could probably think of some more and who makes us but community and wisdom and faith sometimes tends to be ones that people I think often kind of either don’t practice don’t put effort into, in sometimes don’t really know how to especially if you weren’t raised with the in the same kind of in a home where those things were valued. But community is huge. And community like you’re saying is not only what got you out of where you are, but now is continuing to help you grow as a person. And what you’re doing adores her dream in a lot of ways. It’s like building a community. So I’m curious to make the jump into kind of doors a dream and maybe tell everyone a little bit. What is your dream? What are you all about what you’re doing?

Sam 24:13
Yeah, I’ll start and then you can fill in sure fill in the blank. So doors a dream. We are a youth development program. We work with title one middle school and high school students. We’re in two feeder systems, right? So we’re with Morningside in North Charleston High School, and then Simmons Pinkney middle and Burke High School with a thought process that will start with sixth graders and we’ll follow them until they graduate. So we have seven years of time to you know, make some transformational change, teach them lifelong lessons and skills, provide opportunities, build confidence, all of those soft skills 21st century skills and we do so through the lens of service. So service to us is the most importance driver for people and I think that’s where People can find their passion. There’s no prerequisite for service you don’t, you don’t need to be good at algebra one, in order to be good at service, all you need is a caring heart. And that is a really big thing for our students who maybe don’t find success in the classroom. So, in middle school, we have pathways of leadership. And that’s just foundational service, Social Emotional Learning and Leadership, how to be a good human, how to feel comfortable in your own skin, how to interact with the people around you, even if you don’t like them, you still have to understand how to interact with them and work with them. All of that good stuff. In high school, we put those skills to work in our social impact programs, where we have students plan projects that impact their neighborhoods, their schools, their peers, in whatever way they see fit. So it’s all student driven. I like to say we are the bumpers on their bowling alley, right? Like they’re doing the work, we’re just keeping them within the lines, and allowing them to make decisions and feel feel success, right and feel what they’re capable of doing through their hard work. So, in a big nutshell, I guess that’s what, what doorsill dream is up to we, we build intentional relationships, we provide opportunities for students to succeed and fail safely, and learn from those failures and and move forward. We’re very much a growth mindset organization. We want people to really focus on Okay, here’s where I am now. Here’s where I want to go. Very much like that into the ideal. And how am I going to get there? Yeah, I’ll leave. Is there anything I missed? left out? mixed up?

Angelica 26:35
Oh, no, that was pretty wholesome. EQ. Yeah. Yeah. There’s always more to say. Sure. But, yeah.

Hutson 26:43
Well, for anyone that doesn’t know. I mean, I think everyone’s like, yeah, Title One, like, of course, but like, what is the title one school.

Angelica 26:50
If I say this correctly, I title one schools, a school that receives government funding, because it has, it’s typically schools that are that have a very low occupation rate.

Sam 27:03
Yeah, and a low occupancy, occupancy and low income, low income, they’re low income schools. And it’s kids who come from low income zip codes. And it’s over 50% of students qualify for free or reduced lunch, the schools that we are in 98 to 100% of our students qualify for free or reduced lunch. So students who don’t have a lot of wiggle room for mistakes, and are put at a pretty significant disadvantage than schools who come from other other neighborhoods. Yeah, so

Angelica 27:36
the culture is going to be totally different. Like, if you went to a title one school, you might know, if you didn’t, you would also know like, you had tons of clubs, tons of extracurricular activity, students had cars, seniors got parking spots, like they’re the opportunities and a, I don’t know what the, what the title would be called. But like a normal school is, is so so so huge. So at a title one school, it’s like, trim down to the bare bones. And for a high school student that just hinders so many opportunities that you have to get through community, like out in the community versus in the school.

Hutson 28:15
So I’ve been doing this for a little while. What are some of the biggest pitfalls that you see both middle and or high schoolers, kind of falling into? I’m sure that I mean, I worked in education for years. And something I noticed is whether you’re, whether you’re title one or not, or even independent schools, if you’re a kid, you deal with the same thing, but they manifest themselves in different ways. And so I’m curious to hear from y’all, not necessarily what they’re dealing with, but what are what are they? What are they personally what pitfalls you see them personally, going through that if they could just avoid a few of these things? Maybe you could keep them inside the, the rails? Yeah, I

Angelica 28:57
think all teens are experiencing, like, severe difficulty with how to navigate social media. And that’s a huge one. We have a lot of middle schoolers, that ends up in fights because of things that people said or didn’t say, on social media. And so they they go back and forth on social media, and then they see each other and purge, they’re like, let’s handle this now. You know, instead of having a conversation, face to face. And then specifically for our, for the students that were in community with, there’s, there’s a lot of gang opportunities, which is also a sense of an opportunity for to have a sense of belonging, communities, how it’s painted in community, and strength and manhood or whatever it is. And you’re definitely seen as tough and strong and competent. If you can fight. Like it’s fight club or something and it’s not And, and then just even transportation. So like if a student is in a sport, or wants to do some extracurricular activity, transportation is just like a huge hindrance. Or they, they find themselves being responsible for their siblings that their mom can go can go to work. And so they’re already having to deal with, like, adult responsibilities on top of doing their schoolwork

Hutson 30:23
brains aren’t even fully formed. Yeah,

Sam 30:26
when they’re 12, or when they’re 11. Yeah, and I’ll add on to that, as well, I think, I think this goes through all, you know, walks of life is, is a lack of confidence. And that’s where things can prey upon students, right? The bad influences that wanting to fit in the wanting to seem cool. So I think it all kind of boils down to not feeling comfortable in your own skin and not being confident in who you are, and feeling the social pressures from all aspects of their life to to, you know, seem like they have it together, I think that goes back to social media, that goes back to the neighborhoods that they grow up in, there’s a certain portrayal that they feel like a lot of students feel like they need to have. And it doesn’t allow them to really feel confident in like who they are like, truly, internally. Yeah. Which I think kind of, you know,

Hutson 31:19
how do you how are you combating that? What are you doing to help the students find I mean, we talked about purpose, we talked about, you know, being the best version themselves. And if you don’t have the, if you don’t know who you are, then of course, you don’t have confidence. And if you don’t have people helping you navigate, how to figure it out who you are, you let other people tell you who you should, who you are. So how do you how do you help kind of kind of guide them in that way?

Angelica 31:45
I have something to that. I hope it answers the question fully. But so going back to identity, you asked like one of the biggest pitfalls that they face, I believe that when you’re on food stamps, and government assistance, and you look around at your neighborhood, and it’s the projects, and you begin to have this mentality that I need, I lack, and I’m gonna, I’m gonna go without, and I’m not self sufficient, and are able to do things on my own. And so it’s this mindset of usually being the one who is in need and needs to be given to. And so whenever we sit down with students, and we’re like, what do you want to see change in your community? Like, how do you how do you think it could be improved? What something that you feel like is missing? Okay, we’re gonna help, we’re gonna help you map out how to make that happen. And then it changes the it flips a script, and now they’re being a giver. They’re being a doer. They’re being the competent one. They’re the dreamer that took action. Yeah, you know, so like, just even Yeah, so like, if if a student wants to, which is the true story, if a student wants to provide hygiene products for any, any neighborhood, or any, any neighbor, who needs a toothbrush, or deodorant, and that might hinder them from getting to work, then and then they get to see the end result that now there, there’s these hygiene kits being passed out to the community, because of what a third grader and a high school student like thought up? You know? That’s so empowering.

Hutson 33:15
Yeah. Well, the service thing component you’re talking about, I think it’s so interesting, especially when you think about what you just said, Angelica, which is folks feeling like, they are always the ones that need and they will always be the ones who are supported. But then if they’re going out in they’re serving, and they I would imagine the feeling like you said flips of like why I actually do have value and worth and I have things that I could actually provide not just be given Yeah, students feel capable. I

Angelica 33:44
think there was there was one simple quote that a student said would have being interviewed in front of judges, because they get to print this, the high schoolers get to present their projects. And it’s a simple quote, she said, we realize that we could do stuff that simple, like they really thought they could do things

Hutson 34:01
seem seem so like silly, but in reality like that is massive. Life changing?

Sam 34:06
Absolutely. Adding on to what Angelica said, on providing these opportunities, I think. I think there are two big things that we are is we are a consistent source of optimism and positivity. We show up whether you want us to show up or not. We’re at schools all the time. We are going to lunches we are tea, we are going to the classroom sessions. We’re meeting with him after school. We are always there. And I think that consistency, and that structure is something that a lot of students crave, whether they know it or not, I think they crave it. And so we can provide that and I also think the second part of it is providing opportunities to see things and to experience things because so many of our students like Joko saying they have these adult responsibilities, where their world can become very insulated in bubble like where they wake up, they go to school, they maybe if they’re lucky, get to go to basketball practice. And then they have to go home and take care of siblings, or go to work to help pay the light bill. And so their world becomes very limited. Because of their socio economic status. What we try to provide is free opportunities to go on a boat in the harbor, or to go to the international African American Museum, go to the beach, go experience this world of Charleston that’s so big and has so many opportunities. They just don’t have a way to get their foot in the door. So we try to provide that as well. And I think with that consistency, there’s opportunities, and then the service piece of it shifting the mindset can really make a difference in a student’s life.

Hutson 35:45
Yeah. Yeah. And I’m just sitting there thinking some of these lessons. I mean, I think for 12 year olds for 15 year olds, I mean, and adults, I think there were so many adults who is the same thing, like they never were able to get out of it, or they never thought they could just do stuff. And I think no matter no matter the age, the principles, I think, a line here because we’re all human. So you work in a space that is energetic, and with kids and all those things, but also, you’re constantly pouring out. How do you personally refill because you can’t pour out an empty cup? So how do you what are you doing to help make sure that you know you’re there’s there’s bumpers for you, and then you’re staying aligned with with your purpose and not just work? Right? What about all you know, who you are as a whole person is not this is your work life, but you’ve got a life? So yeah, how do you all make sure you don’t end up pouring yourself out too much? Where you can’t have anything to give?

Sam 36:48
That’s a fantastic question. I,

Angelica 36:50
I feel like, I feel like working as a team is really important, but also reaching out to other organizations that are already thriving at the thing that you’re trying to do. And seeing if it’s if it’s a mutualistic relationship. So we’re like, all that we do is not just the two of us impossible, guys don’t try. Not like it can feel very isolating. So So connecting with other good people in the community that are also trying to honestly, like do the same thing is really key. So there’s an organization called Charlson Promise Neighborhood that we partner with for our middle school program. The reason I was started, not that I was there was before me, but they focus on elementary students at the time doors dream focus on high school students. And so there was this in and we realized that a ton of organizations focus on elementary. So we were like, Let’s build this bridge between, you know, elementary and high school where we have all these middle school students, which is probably they’re all important years, but it’s a lot of growth happens in those three years, like an 11 year old to a 14 or 13 year old. And so with, they’re just like having another person having other connections and networking, has really helped help with like, lighten that load. And then in the high school program, we partner with a gigantic organization called multiplying good. And they have a student led service program called students in action. So we get to go to their conferences. That’s where the students get to present their projects. And so they get to and when I say conferences, it’s like, we literally get to take high schoolers to like a leadership conference. Like there’s guest speakers, there’s activities, there’s like things that like I didn’t experience. So it was an adult, like awesome stuff like that, that our organization could never provide. But we are the boots on the ground. We’re meeting every week with students, coaching them guiding them through as they’re building their their project. And we also have partners in the schools, like we lean on our teachers, our teachers lean on us. And we haven’t really talked about that yet. But that’s kind of become a big part of what we do. Like we should I do Teacher Appreciation. Anytime we’re in the building we connect with with the staff, they’re, they’re just as important as the students. Yeah. And to know that they have other like, we our goal was like that, when we’re in the building they can identify us is not someone who’s given them our work, not someone who’s stressing them out, but someone who’s lightening their load ordering them and supporting them.

Sam 39:32
Yeah, and I think having that team effort really allows us to, you know, continue to pour out right because we know that we have people to lean on. I also think that we are to just naturally energetic encouragers which you know, by nature, I think it comes fairly easily, but you write like this job it it can easily become a 24/7 job if you allow it to become a 24/7 job, because there’s always something to worry about. There’s always Something that’s going on. I had a student one time, give me a call at 1030 at night because she found a kitten. She didn’t know what to do with it. And I was the first call that she had. Yeah. Right.

Hutson 40:09
And so like with love, and at the same time, yeah, like, now I have to turn up. Now

Sam 40:14
I had to go take care of this kitten at 1030 in the evening, and I could not well, not in my game plan for her for the night. So I think because it can be this 24/7 job, we have to be very intentional about having that work life balance. We know that if we allow ourselves to totally be on, then well have nothing to give. Yeah. So, you know, we try very hard to have moments where we’re like, okay, we’re shutting off, you know, and as long

Angelica 40:49
as our Aleksi there are X’s and Q’s, Q’s P’s and Q’s, like, as long as the important stuff is done, like, and we’re pretty good at, like getting everything that we need to get done to be successful. And then it’s like, okay, the things that are happening in four months, we don’t have to spend the next two hours thinking about right now. Okay, tomorrow, just like knowing when to close the book. Yeah, it’ll be there tomorrow. And

Sam 41:14
lastly, I think for for this work, right? Someone explained this, to me when I was teaching, a normal job is like a little solo cup, right. And normal job is like 90%, good 10%. You know what I mean? Like, there’s some, there’s good and bad with every job that you’re in. For the work that we are in, it’s like a 10 gallon bucket, where it’s 90%, good, 10% bad. So we deal with a lot more stuff that’s not wonderful, like having to pick up a kitten at 1030 at night. But the amount of good stuff that we get to see every day is overwhelming sometimes. And I think that’s where you, that’s where I at least personally get a lot of my energy for the work is seeing the light bulb moment for a sixth grader who set a goal eight weeks ago to get their grade from the 70 to an 85. And allow and having that moment where they’re like, they we check their grades with them, we sit down, and they see that 85 And they are jazzed up, like that moment, like gives me so much life because, one, it’s just darn exciting, right? Like this kid’s so pumped in, you can do that. You can do things. And, and to like, like knowing that the work that we put in, you know, all the time, sometimes it feels like 24/7 that the outcomes are happening matters. Like we’re like, it’s just like any goal that you set, right? Like, we get joy from the goals that our students set, not only the goals that we set, because our student we have 150 students, every one of those students has goals. When they reach a goal, it gives, you know, a little juice to us too. Yeah. So really making sure we focus on the positive so that it can be a really, really fulfilling or it is a very fulfilling.

Hutson 42:59
Yeah. Well, we talked about the pursuit of goals a lot. Yeah, you know, it’s not just achievement, obviously, you get pumped for it, but like it’s the pursuit. Yes, the great is is is is the is just as much joy. And then the afterwards like reconnecting that back like you wanted to get an A not just to get an A but because this for whatever the goal is to reset it. Yes. I’m sure. You’re reconnecting that back for them. Do you find that there was resistance at the goal setting? For the students at the beginning, or they all excited to have someone help them set their goals? It

Angelica 43:33
depends on that eight, the grade, I would say like a sixth grader, or even honestly, any of the middle schoolers have maybe never done this before. So they’re kind of like, why are we doing this? It’s the whole like, why and not fully understanding it. So there’s a lot. So the obviously the first goal that we set in September was very much like, they did not understand how to write a goal. Maybe most adults that you guys might work with are like, you know, I mean, I remember even in being in the program with you guys and being like, oh, yeah, I need I need to tweak that more. I’m avoiding it making it specific, you know, for a reason. And so seeing it in a child is very, very similar. And

Sam 44:17
what I thought, yeah, and I think so because a lot of our students are inexperienced with it. And we allow them to set whatever goal they want. Right. So we’ve had students who have been like, I’m gonna get all 90 nines on the key bubble. Yeah,

Hutson 44:32
I mean, maybe eventually, but right now, that’s yeah.

Sam 44:36
Let’s think about so we we try to provide those guardrails, but

Angelica 44:41
right, because and experience when Yeah, yeah, and let them know like a D is a win if you have an F if you have a 70 in this class, slowly move. Yeah.

Hutson 44:53
That could be an achievable goal right now let’s be realistic.

Sam 44:56
Exactly. And so in providing that structure can be difficult for some of our C You’re insane. But

Angelica 45:02
it’s also cool to see that like they want to be like, that’s their ideal self maybe is that they’re getting 99. So they’re getting, you know, so but it’s like you, but helping kids understand it, you don’t just get there overnight. You got to play the long game. So start small, and then maybe by, you know, by the end of my fourth quarter, maybe so you know, yeah,

Sam 45:22
and I so I think that one of the biggest things for our kids, it kind of goes back to what we were just talking about is is the consistency of it. I mean, adults do this as well, we were actually talking on the way over here, like, we loved the sessions with y’all, because it provided consistent accountability. And that’s what we try to provide for our students, right? Like, how can we make sure that you’re not forgetting about this goal? Once real life starts to happen? Yeah. And so we’re constantly there for them to be like, you know, how are you guys doing? And they’re like, oh, yeah, you know what I did say, I wanted to get an 85. And I didn’t do that well, in class today. So that constant reminder for them, starts to build that habit, because it is a hard habit to learn. It’s a

Hutson 46:04
hard habit. And when they set the goals, when you ask those questions, the accountability is not I want you to get this. It’s you said that, yeah, and then it it hits home differently. Does any age person have like, Okay, well, yeah, this is something that I do want. I know I want it. Yeah, it’s painful right now. Yeah. But it’s something that I chose. And so I know you’re here to help me, which is different than like, let’s sit down, I’m gonna tell you what I want, which is a very, very different kind of mentality. I

Sam 46:34
wholeheartedly agree. And so when we set these goals with our students we try to be we try to give them buckets. And each, they need to have three buckets of goals, ones and academical ones a personal goal, we included a health one this year, which I thought was fairly interesting. But within those buckets, we said, we don’t care what you said, doesn’t matter, we’ll we’ll help you be strategic if you want our help. But if you want to get your 90 and math to a 95 go for if you want to get your 82 and English to an 86. Go for it. Whatever goal you want to set for yourself. Like we allow them that freedom, because I think a lot of our students in school don’t feel the freedom of choice. And it’s because our the teachers have, you know, it’s an upward climb, uphill climb for them. So there just needs to be things that happen, but we try to give them the choice. So yeah, it is kind of funny seeing like, what really what matters to you. And a lot of our kids have a hard time because they’ve never been asked that question before. They don’t have the freedom to think for themselves. Like where do you want to be personally and Lord, heaven forbid, we now have to spend the next 30 minutes talking about where you are, where you want to go, because it’s something that, you know, it’s never crossed their mind to think especially when you’re 11 and 12, which I think is pretty standard. But we’re trying to introduce that as much as we possibly can for our kids.

Hutson 47:51
Yeah, well, and until you talked about regulating coming out being a nutrition or health coach and being a coach and don’t know that you think of yourself as a coach. You clearly. Yeah, well, it’s so you know, we take a very literal perspective of what coaches and we think of what you’re saying, as a coach, and you are you keeping, you’re holding people accountable and helping them be the best version of themselves, whether that’s wealth management, whether that’s a doctor or whatever, that whatever, it’s what it is, and it’s so interesting how, how I think we as humans, we want the best version of ourselves. And we also find great joy in seeing other people become the best version of themselves. Yeah, absolutely. It’s super, super interesting. Yeah, we all do. Yeah, well, I think it’s in us whether or not we allow it to come to the forefront is different. Sure. And I think it sounds like what y’all are doing such a good job with one curious. A few things. One is y’all mentioned a lot of programming. Yeah, I was wondering if, maybe if you’re on the same one, or different if there’s one that you’re particularly proud of, or most excited about? I know all of them are good. So I know that there’s not like a hierarchy. But I don’t know. I’m just curious if there’s one that like, really, really gets you going.

Sam 49:15
I wonder if we have the same answer for this. I’m gonna let you

Angelica 49:17
say at the same time.

Hutson 49:20
Ready? 123.

Sam 49:28
So for me, it’s the Dream Team, which is our high school service program. One of my favorite days in high school was we had service day where we got to go and spend in whole academic days, you know, helping and giving and that’s like we talked about earlier, that’s kind of like where my heart is. And I think that’s where we can see the most growth for our high school kids. And so that really jazzes me up that was also kind of the bread and butter of doors a dream at the very get go. So that’s where I started. And that’s where I’ve that’s where I grew like I developed that protein your baby is It became my baby. So that’s what I’m really excited about. I love the lightbulb moment of seeing a kid being like, I, I did this, that like we built this playhouse for these 85 screaming children right now, like I did that. That’s what gives me the most joy. And it does not surprise me at all that you said PGL because again, she built it. Yeah,

Angelica 50:19
yeah, no, that is funny. Yeah, definitely pathways to leadership because just everything about it does feel like a piece of me for sure. It does. I love it. Because middle schoolers I feel like are so awkward. And to adults. Yeah. And they feel uncomfortable in their skin. And maybe it like brings something up for adults, I don’t know. But like, I just will act a complete goofball in front of them and just be silly and be totally comfortable with it. Just because Middle School is hard. I remember it. So it’s almost like I just love speaking to that place in their life. Like, like, if a girl is being sassy or if a boys fibbing to me. I’m like, Honey, I wrote the book right here. Vaizey be like, but also, because they’re like I, I feel like they’re overlooked. It’s just like, not not that they’re the misfits. But in a sense, like, I feel like you’re

Hutson 51:12
figuring out who you are. And you don’t know who you are oftentimes, or fin group changes, your passions change much. And for adults, I think you’re dealing with an age where they’re still goofy, like a lower school elementary kid. But they’re thinking now on a high school level. Yeah. And they don’t know how to handle it. And adults equally don’t know how to handle it. Because it’s awkward, like you said, and adults run from awkwardness. And we just mask on. But I think it’s that that age is beautiful. If you let it be beautiful, yes. Awkward. If it’s awkward, you know, you can meet them where they are, and they goofiness and also meet them where they are in the they can have deep conversations. And both of those things are equally great. Yeah, like

Angelica 51:58
eighth grader is you can see a lot of seriousness in them, like they want to be serious, they want to be cool. Sometimes they’re more reserved, but like you can almost they’re almost like merging into young adulthood. So you can kind of maybe have a more heavy conversation with them. seventh graders are still kind of Bippity boppity really trying to figure out who changed. That’s when for new facts or a lot of changing sixth graders when they’re still kind of like

Hutson 52:27
they think so they’re older, but they don’t really want to be Yeah, right. Yeah. So.

Angelica 52:31
So it’s a lot of so the program’s really built, like it’s built like building blocks. So it’s cool to see like, we’ll talk to sixth grade about something and then seventh grade, eighth grade, and each, like we will literally building on a foundation. And it’s so drastic, so it’s just cool to see it come together. Yeah, yeah.

Sam 52:47
It’s always Middle School is always funny, because when I told people I was an eighth grade science teacher, they’d be like, Oh, no, like, that age group is awesome. Yeah. Because they, like you said, like, especially with eighth graders. And we’re seeing this. This is our first year with an eighth grade group with pathways leadership. And it’s been so much fun. Because they think that they’re, they’re old enough to, to think they’re real people, but they’re not old enough to actually be a real threat. And yet, they can still fail safely. Oh, yeah. And so really harnessing that energy, that awkward energy, yeah. And leaning into it and being goofy in it. It allows our kids to come out of their shell like the student like they start to see Angelica and Sam and Michelle Eddie, with Charlson promise being like all goofballs, and then, slowly but surely, you’re starting to see that won’t come down and you’re like, Oh, we’re getting to Yeah, I know. You don’t want to but we’re getting we’re getting there. Yeah. And that’s you can start see the progress and there’s their everyday life, I guess on their conversations. Yeah. goofiness. So,

Hutson 53:47
folks listening. How can people get involved? What are ways in which they can partner with you, help your team succeed and be the best version of itself? What can people do to help you? Well, we’re hiring, like a job team.

Angelica 54:08
But we also do service Saturdays. And so what that is, is we go out in the community we partner with, we either partner with another organization that’s doing something great, or we go out and do our own thing. So the teenagers, the middle schoolers, parents, anybody can come to that. This Monday, we did a service wouldn’t really be a service Saturday, but this Monday, the South Carolina Aquarium, the Charleston parks, conservatory, everybody, all these organizations came together to host a litter sweep, and in honor of Dr. King, so yeah,

Sam 54:46
and so their service Saturdays, they typically happen on the third Saturday of the month, typically, but I think the lowest level form of getting involved is following us on Instagram, subscribing to our newsletter, and we put But everything that we need are out there for the most part. And then of course, you can visit There’s my plug and and see what’s going on and learn more about what we’re what we’re doing. And I think that we’re both open books, our inboxes are always open, please shoot us an email, our contact information is on our website, we we are open to everyone coming on board. We had a family night not terribly long ago, where we invited a bunch of families in to learn about the program, eat dinner, we love the idea of having people around the table together. And one of the things that we stressed was it takes a village, right, the whole cliche, but it takes a village. And so we are welcoming anyone and everyone into our village to ensure that this next generation of leaders for our city, this next generation of change agents for our city, are jazzed up confident and ready to go.

Angelica 55:56
Absolutely. We also have a fundraiser coming up in April, if you’re the philanthropy type, or even if even if you have $5 to give like trust me, it goes a long way into opening doors for the students

Hutson 56:09
to have Yeah, I’m curious. There’s folks who love this type of work. Yeah, their life isn’t allow them to volunteer or the left doesn’t allow the new things, but they want to support and financially, maybe the only way to be able to support sure is a way to give online. Yes,

Sam 56:25
if you go to doors for, it’s all very simple, easy to go from there. Like Angelica said, you know, we’re still very much a grassroots organization. So big or small, it all makes a difference. It all goes into the students into the classrooms, and ensuring that, you know, they’re given an equitable shot at chasing their dreams and living that inspired purposeful life. So any donations are very welcome. We are so thankful for those who want to get involved and want to donate it, you know, it goes a long, long way. And we are students, it’s so fun, because now we’re like at the point where our students, like are really excited. We’re excited. So on Tuesday, last week, when we had the storm, we had students DMing us on Instagram, being like, Hey, can y’all come on Wednesday instead of Tuesday this week, like we’re, they want it like it’s it’s we’re at this very exciting shift, where we’re growing, and we’re expanding and accelerating. And so now more than ever, we need as much help from the community as possible to be

Angelica 57:31
able to expand our programming to maintain our programming, which includes like the supplies needed for that even to go on excursions or field trips. We’re obviously we I should say Sam is always like also applying for grants. We got a grant, I guess last year for how many computers to give to our to those who graduate the Dream Team.

Sam 57:53
Yeah, so we got like 30 computers, and that, you know, all that money goes into computers for high school graduates who have to turn in their laptops at the end of the school year. They enter the real world without a laptop. So yeah, we welcome every every one and anyone who wants to support. We thank you. And we’re excited about what’s the comfort towards the dream and our students. It’s a joy.

Angelica 58:14
It’s a joy, to be a blessing.

Hutson 58:18
Thank you all so much. It’s been an absolute joy. Hey, how about that? You’re here we are doing and you know, it’s truly inspiring to hear your passion. And I can’t wait to have Joel back here years later and hear about where students are and what they’re doing and how they’re changing the world.

Sam 58:35
Absolutely. Well, thank you all so much for having us and, you know, for the opportunity that the ideal foundation and into the ideal has provided for us, you know, we we would not be where we are over the past couple of months without y’all. So thank you all so much for the opportunities. Thanks

Episode 5:

Embracing Change: A Journey of Self-Discovery with Jamie Tozzi

Jamie Tozzi, Business Coach & Speaker (ex-Microsoft)

In this captivating episode we engage in an inspiring conversation with Jamie Tozzi, an executive business coach, and a passionate advocate for personal growth. Listen as Jamie shares her deeply personal journey of self-discovery and the pivotal moments that led her to embrace change and pursue a life aligned with her authentic purpose. Through vulnerability and resilience, Jamie offers profound insights into navigating transitions, overcoming obstacles, and cultivating a mindset of empowerment.

Jamie Tozzi is a business coach and speaker. Follow Jamie on LinkedIn.

Hutson 0:20
Jamie, thanks so much for joining us on the show. I’m so glad you’re here.

Jamie T. 0:23
It’s great to be here. Thanks, Adson.

Hutson 0:24
Yeah, so we’re in the New Year recording, and a little off the cuff question. You know, a lot of us set new goals and all these things for for January and beyond curious, it’s anything that you are particularly excited about in the New Year, or something that maybe is a little bit unknown and scary for you. Lots

Jamie T. 0:46
of new exciting things and scary things. But yesterday, somebody asked me, What’s the word I would describe for myself? What’s my word for 2024. And that’s intention. And so I’m just really focused on being way more intentional about everything in my life, my business practice, where I spend my time, my health, everything. So that’s really what’s exciting. Also was exciting. We’ve got some good travel plans this year, which I’m excited about, we always do, but this year will be even more special, where you’ll head in, well, we’re gonna go to Costa Rica in March, which is our new favorite place. And it’s a place that over time we expect to spend more time with and we’ve invested in property, March, we’re going to be in Nosara. And we’re going to do a big surf vacation with the boys. I have three teenagers. And But then we’re also going to visit where we bought our new property, which should be ready later this year. And that’s in reserve our conch shell. Awesome. Yeah, on the west coast.

Hutson 1:43
Now, I love Costa Rica is one of my favorite places in the world.

Jamie T. 1:46
Beautiful People amazing culture. And I’m so looking forward to just immersing myself in learning and contributing. So

Hutson 1:54
I remember this is true still today, but a decade ago or so is the highest number of expats per capita I think of any country, which makes total sense. It’s because

Jamie T. 2:05
I think it’s so beautiful. And it keeps winning all these awards, like best places to retire and best places to live. There’s Blue Zones there. So I think that’s only going to continue. Yeah, maybe we’re getting a nun the semi earlier

Hutson 2:18
No, it always happens like Charleston, and all of a sudden it’s no longer whatever they do. It’s a great, exactly. Costa Rica is fantastic. That’s so cool. exciting for you all. Thank you. He’s gonna rise. And so maybe start all the way kind of back. Where are you from? Where do you go to college? That kind of thing?

Jamie T. 2:33
Yeah, I’m from right outside Philadelphia, in Delaware County. So the very first exit off of I 95. When you get into Pennsylvania, there was from that area will laugh when they hear me say that. I graduated at 17, moved to Boston, went to Boston College, and lived in Boston for three years post college, moved to DC and then moved to Charleston.

Hutson 2:56
Nice. Yeah. What are you doing in Boston after BC,

Jamie T. 2:59
I got a great job with Coopers and Lybrand. In fact, it’s funny story, I didn’t really know what my job was, I was just so happy to be hired by a big six accounting firm at the time. So I did that I was an auditor and did that. And it was also a consultant for a few years, and then moved to DC and took a job in sales at Microsoft and then spent nearly 20 years most of my career at Microsoft working my way from the ground up at 24. You know, all the way up.

Hutson 3:27
So accountant, did you go to school for accounting? No,

Jamie T. 3:31
I was a Marketing and Communications major. And thankfully, the Boston office of Coopers and Lybrand, at the time, had this unique hiring practice. They wanted to hire a diverse set of skill sets and people with different backgrounds. So there was a business background like myself, not accounting, we had an anthropology major, and we had a science major. So it was, we were a little behind the curve at first, but I like to say we we caught up quickly.

Hutson 3:54
That’s really neat. Yeah. So what kept you in Microsoft for that long?

Jamie T. 3:59
You know, it’s funny, I left after 20 years, and now I’m more immersed with working with venture capitalist companies and high growth, smaller companies. And when they see my resume, they kind of look at me sideways and say, You’re a dinosaur. Why were you staying at Microsoft for 20 years, and it made me realize, wow, you know, that’s the perception. But the reason I stayed is because it was always something new. I was in incubation businesses, always. So always in businesses that were very new to Microsoft, where you had to build things. I’m a builder. Always big challenges and frankly, I always kind of felt like I was flying on the seat of my pants during my time there so that’s what kept me there energized. The people are amazing. I can’t say enough great things about the Microsoft culture and the incredibly talented people I got to work with over over the years. Yeah,

Hutson 4:47
well, the incubator so it sounds like that was able to keep you feel like you’re a small business and a massive organization. 100%

Jamie T. 4:54
That’s what I said. We’re like a really small business inside a room. really big, amazing, well funded company even though sometimes my business itself did not feel as well funded. Yeah.

Hutson 5:07
So what were you doing in Microsoft?

Jamie T. 5:09
What was I doing? Yeah, when I started 24, I was I look back and I was so green, so to speak, and maybe even had some confidence issues back then. But I started, I will be forever grateful to Pam Selzer, who hired me as a sales rep with no sales experience. So I was a sales rep, selling into small and mid market accounts. For the first time Microsoft was calling on these accounts, and worked my way up in the sales organization. To eventually by the time I left leading a $1 billion business sales team for Microsoft 20

Hutson 5:46
years talked about already is like for nowadays especially is like, almost unheard of, yes, for a variety reasons. Sounds like it was a perfect place for you. But at some point, it no longer was the right fit. What made you decide, now’s the time to jump in why?

Jamie T. 6:02
It’s really it’s more of a personal story than anything, because I could have stayed another 20 years and loved it, my career trajectory was going in the right direction. The people around me were phenomenal. I worked for a great manager. But my husband, who was also at Microsoft for 22 years, we met there on the company softball team. He got a really tough diagnosis in in 2018. And that was like this, really, this moment here. We were raising three kids ships to ships passing in the night traveling all the time. And then boom, we hit a wall because of Jeff’s diagnosis. And thank god, he’s okay today. But at the time, it led to conversations like, wow, what’s important in life and what’s going to happen if it’s just me with the kids and things like that we didn’t even tell our extended family because we weren’t ready to share that information. So thankfully, he got a little better, but turn into 2019. And we just said, you know, our boys, we only have a few more years before they’re off to college, we really want to focus on health, we want to focus on our family. And we decided to make the double jump to both exit Microsoft at the same time and had set some goals previously about for our finance, our finances that enabled us to do that, which we’re really grateful for and, and made the move Jeff was very ready. I could have stayed and I was a little bit sad in a way to move, but it was the right thing. And it’s also excited to do

Hutson 7:27
it. Yeah, well, it’s so interesting how on the outside, even you said you mentioned it like it made me feel a little sad. But when you put your work or any life role under the lens of who you want to be at the end, yes. And then all of a sudden, things become a little bit clearer. Even though it may be it seems like it’s the perfect right path, it may not actually be the right path. And it of course will help you get there. But as you reach those milestones, as you reach those goals, you can when you can look back and say, okay, the way that we’re living is this really is this how we want to be is it something when remembered by is the life we want to actually the person want to become even though maybe we’re doing something we love and it’s fulfilling in those ways? Is it also fulfilling the other pieces of our life that make us who we are? And sometimes they they aren’t

Jamie T. 8:12
exactly is it all we want to be and even though that time in 2018 2019 was a really difficult time for us dealing with the challenges sometimes. I mean, usually, I think that when bad things happen, really good things come out of it. And so for us, it was almost as my friend Chris would say, a violent shove in the right direction, to really slow down because that was the big piece slowing down when you’re on this, you know, high intense trajectory, to slow down and really take stock of what’s important and to really sit back and say, what do we really want for our lives? What does that look like? And is what we’re doing now? Putting us closer or further away from that. So it was a highly introspective time. Yeah.

Hutson 8:55
Well, maybe if, if you will, I’d like to dive a little bit deeper into that. Sure. So you had the tough diagnosis. And then you said you’re both kind of like did some introspection and kind of reassess what’s important? Can you be a little more specific where that actually look like? Did you Did y’all do that together? We’re doing it separately. We have those conversations, did you actually write things down? What was that process like?

Jamie T. 9:18
Well, what’s really interesting if I can just step back briefly, when you’re in a 20 year career, and I went through a lot of career stages from or personal stages from being 24, and single to I had three children while I was at Microsoft, so going through all the ups and downs of oh, do I go back to work? Do I stay at home? Am I doing a good job being a working parent? Am I not doing a good job? Feeling you know, and the ups and downs of you know, sometimes you have great years and you’re feeling like you can conquer the world and sometimes you’re feeling like you can’t do anything right and but I would say over the past couple prior years, I was feeling the sense of a little bit of discontent. And I can’t describe it because everything was great. The people around me were great. Our business was going well, professionally, things were going well. But it just was something I couldn’t ignore. I just had this feeling at one point, I almost left Microsoft a few years earlier, I was getting recruited to lead a nonprofit, for an organization that I’m really passionate about their cause. And then I was like, no, what am I doing? I can’t do this. So there was always there’s already a little bit of discontent there. But I didn’t understand why. When Jeff had his his health issues, the conversations were, you know, gosh, you know, what do we want our life to be like? And have we really, even though we’re really proud of the way we raised the boys, I mean, I can’t say that we were always super present. We had our phones out all the time, the job was around the clock, and have We given them and done enough for them so that when Luca and Matteo and then Ethan leave for college, they’re totally equipped. And we have no regrets. And are we? And we looked ourselves in the mirror, and we said, You know what, that Microsoft is a great place to work. But two executives at Microsoft, it was tough, and it was a lot. And so we said, you know, we need to pare this back. So that that was really the the genesis of it. I would say 10 years prior to that. Jeff said to me, Hey, you know, let’s work on our finances. Wouldn’t it be cool if by the time we were 45? We were financially independent, and I wasn’t even thinking that far ahead. He’s like, Yeah, then we can leave and do whatever we want. And I’m thinking I’ll never want to leave Microsoft. But okay, sure. And that was a goal we had. And we did a monthly business review, which is a very Microsoft thing, you do a Business Review, every month, we would sit down, and we would say, did we achieve where we need to be. And ironically, I left when I was 44, Jeff was 46. And we achieve that goal. So that had given us the ability to make those choices to both leave at the same time. But it was really about, you know, there’s more of an impact I can make in a different way. And we really want to focus on making sure our kids are good, our kids were fine. But looking back now that last couple of years of LUCA in high school where we were really able to focus on him, I think it made a difference. Big difference. Yeah,

Hutson 12:09
well, and you know, the framework, going through yourself and using it in practice and what you’re, what you’re hitting on, what we would talk about is about his values and purpose. And work is a piece of that, but so as family, and so as a community. And so all these things, and when when one gets all the weight, the scale gets unbalanced. And that’s it sounds like what you’re saying is the the discontentment was a little bit of unbalanced and then coming back and saying, but what Who do I want to be? And what is what are my values. And we’re not really living into these values over here. So let’s kind of take a step back. And that’s a big for both of you want to do that. Even if you’ve prepared financially, it’s still a big step and a scary step. How did you prepare for that? And then kind of where did that take you? Where are you now?

Jamie T. 12:59
So how do we prepare her on the personal level, I said to Jeff, I said, we’ve only ever known each other at Microsoft, our kitchen table conversations revolve around that we use acronyms. Our world is crazy the way we outsource everything in our lives, and then focus on ourselves, our kids and Microsoft. But it works for us. So that’s all we know. And you know, we have a happy marriage and things are good. My biggest fear is when we can we have more time on our hands are we still going to grow together in ways that are going to support our marriage and our family and grow? So that was a big fear of mine. So it’s something we talked a lot about ahead of time and started talking about, like, what do you want out of this post Microsoft world? What are you going to do that I have no interest in? What am I going to do? And then what are we going to make sure we do together? Whatever, what are our goals together? So that was really important. And then there was the importance of leaving Microsoft? Well, so I remember, there were some, there were some financial things about when you notify Microsoft and I worried for a second I’m like, Well, if I notified before September, when my stop vests, and they walked me out the door, then I leave all this money on the table yet, if I don’t notify until after September, that’s not honoring to my manager who has to deal with the repercussions. And so I went through this whole process and eventually just said, You know what, I’m just gonna, somebody actually gave me really good advice. He said to me, you know, what you need, what would what would leaving Microsoft, doing the best person ever to leave Microsoft? What would that look like? And I thought, yeah, that’s what I’m gonna go for. And so in August, I told my boss that I was planning on leaving and I just said, I think it would be in Microsoft’s best interest if we work on a good plan together that honors Microsoft and honors me I think there’s going to be some people that are going to be shocked that I’m leaving and so let’s do this together and he agreed he was amazing Tyler Bryson and together we I was on for about almost six months. I hired my help tire my successor. We got the team ready, we made sure everybody felt good about things. And it was great for me personally. So that was that was really exciting and kind of taught me do things the right way. And maybe sometimes they don’t work out. But usually they do. Yeah, there was the process of leaving, then there was the personal side. So

Hutson 15:15
you left, I left. And then you did what?

Jamie T. 15:18
I had this saying, as I was leaving. So between August and December, I had to say, and like run through the tape, my track coach always told us, when you most people, when they’re getting to the end of the finish line, they see the tape and they kind of slow up, right? So he would always say run through the tape, because that little split second could really matter. So I would I was terrified that people at Microsoft would think I was just resting investing, they announced me leaving in September, and then I’m still around December who does that? And so I just run through the tape like you’re finishing well as the most important thing. And I kept saying my kids were like, stop saying run through the tape is so annoying. But so I only tell you that to say I didn’t really think a lot about what was after grind early until after I left on December 31 2019. When that happened, I thought okay, I’m just gonna take a second to breathe. Thankfully, my phone started bringing business partners, others that realized I left Microsoft colleagues who I had known along the way, asked me to come work for them. And I’m like, No, I’m not getting back into that. But I had some interesting opportunities. I did some speaking engagements. And I started coaching, which is really my passion. And I told myself, you know what, I am going to give myself some time to just to try whatever comes my way and see what I enjoy doing. But coaching was always something that I love to do is a favorite part of my job at Microsoft. And so very quickly, I have my first client was back to Microsoft talking about leaving Well, I left with six coaching clients, emerging leaders in the business who are all amazing. And since then have built a very healthy coaching practice of CEOs of small and mid sized organizations and senior executives at large companies across industries and extremely fulfilling. That’s

Hutson 17:07
so great. So while you were at Microsoft, were you someone who was always coaching others, and that you say is your passion? I’m assuming you found that after Microsoft. But can you look back now and see kind of how that was building towards this

Jamie T. 17:21
moment? 100%. I mean, I feel like what I’ve done a lot of introspection about since I’ve left Microsoft, now that I am a leadership coach is what created my leadership approach. And what I think makes it I wouldn’t say unique, but definitely maybe not as much a talked about point of view is the focus on others. I mean, in my opinion, it was always about other people. So how do I get the best out of another person? Because I know what Jamie at 80% Looks like she’s not bad, but she’s not great. Right? And Jamie at 110%, what does that look like? I also know having started my career at Microsoft say not as confident. I remember I was just a month in and Steve Ballmer, who was the former CEO of Microsoft came to town. And somebody thought it was a good idea to give me the job of leading a customer roundtable with him. And so it was my first time ever leading a customer roundtable where I’m an MC and I have to lead so I prep that. And then we got the customers in the room and I’m like Steve, meet our customers who has the first question. And all of the CEOs clammed up, no one said a word. And I fumbled. Um, um, you know, John, you said that. I mean, it was I was sweating. It was terrible. The whole thing was average. And my job was to walk him to the next to the next place. And I said, Steve, I’m so sorry that that didn’t go well. And he stopped, he physically stopped and he’s a big man. And he said to me, Jamie, I thought you did great. Everybody tends to get a little shy around me. So keep up the great work. And I thought to myself, Man, like he had an opportunity to say something that would crush me. Yeah, potentially for years to come. But he encouraged me. And that’s what I think leadership is all about. You encourage people to get the best out of them. And they have within themselves to grow and be amazing. So that’s what my that’s what my leadership is all about.

Hutson 19:19
The joy and goal setting podcast is proud to be partnered with and brought to you by the ideal life. The ideal life offers a multimedia platform that is focused on cultivating a growth mindset. Here you’ll find a supportive community of coaches, valuable online resources and transformative courses aimed at helping you lead a more gratifying and joyful life. Ready to take the next step in your personal growth journey. Visit the ideal to explore their wealth and resources and join the vibrant growing community today. So you jump in in this new world of coaching Yes, it’s obviously new but not totally new. Like you said, you’ve been doing it but but all of a sudden you got to put yourself out Throw a little bit even though you have these people that know you, but now you’re a coach, you go from executive to coach is that? Was that weird? Was that normal? Did you not think about it?

Jamie T. 20:11
It felt completely natural to me, honestly, I think because I was able, my first set of clients were all in the tech industry. And the first set of clients, particularly on Microsoft, were people who were a little bit earlier in career than I had been, it was really comfortable. I’ve know exactly where you’ve come from, I know all the lingo and logistics of Microsoft. So I was able to hone my more professional coaching skills that I had learned earlier, Microsoft had actually sent me to a class for it. So some of the technical components. One of their, where it got a little nervous for me was one day, and then I started coaching other tech executives. And that felt like a good crossover. And then one day, somebody introduced me to the CEO of a small sized community development organization, a CDFI, finance organization. And I thought, How am I going to coach the CEO of a finance organization like, this is not my area of expertise, but I’ll meet with him? Sure. And we hit it off immediately. And what I realized was, he didn’t need a coach to help him figure out what kind of lending he needed to do or what the market was saying he was an expert in that, yeah, what he needed help with was how to make sure he was bringing his team along, he was relatively new enroll. They weren’t kind of, you know, I guess getting along all that great. And how do you move things forward? So that felt very natural? Oh, well, I love to do that’s my favorite thing to do is get small mighty teams to do outsized things, and to get people excited for the work not because they have to do it, because it’s their job, not because they have to do it for you, because it’s their boss, but because they want to do it, you’ve inspired something in them, that brings out the best in them. That all felt natural. And what I started realizing over time, was that is exactly what so many really accomplished amazing senior leaders and organizations that are great at their craft struggle with, particularly as they make transitions into more senior roles. So my favorite kind of clients are newly promoted CEOs that are working on that transition, and things like that. So I still do coaching in the tech sector, which feels extremely natural, right. But these other industries, that translates beautifully. So

Hutson 22:23
you mentioned how a lot of leaders that are newly promoted, they don’t have, oftentimes they’re not, they’re not really great at leading folks, or leading culture or getting the most out of them. Why do you think that is in in businesses? What what are we not doing in a business when we promote someone? Or how are we not? Why are we not preparing them? Are we not doing that? We could so they when they get to that level? They they have a better idea of how to do that?

Jamie T. 22:54
Great question. There’s a couple of reasons I think, I think that there’s some natural inflection points in leadership growth in in a typical size organization, for example, that fundamentally have, you have to take a shift of the way you think in the way you work. One is moving from an individual contributor, where it’s all about self leadership, to your first time manager role, right? That takes a big a big shift, then another one is going from a first time manager to now leading other managers or leading leaders, that’s about how you amplify your impact through others. And that takes a whole different mindset. I see a lot of leaders there get stuck around. Well, what do I do now? If if somebody else is doing it? Where do I add value? Right? And then as you go up the chain, then it’s more about how do I make sure we have the right culture. So that the things that are important to me in the in the in the in the tone that I want to set gets done is not about the tactical execution of that. And here, for example, like at a CEO level, how are senior leadership team level? What are the values? Right? What are the big things that we are want to be known for, because you’re not going to be able to create an SOP, a standard operating procedure for everything that you want to do, you want to set the tone so that people act a certain way all the time, and that you reinforce the behaviors and that your leadership team models, the behaviors? And then so those are the those are the big things when we promote people, we usually do it because they’re really good at what they did before. Exactly. And we don’t necessarily always equip them with tools or tools to get to the next level. And then on top of that, everybody the second pitfall is everybody pretends like it’s super easy, right? So then hosts want to do it your special holiday. I mean, I’ve worked with CEOs who would will confess to me that they feel like a little little nervous right but they who are they going to tell they’re nervous too? Well, it’s because nobody tells them what’s what’s normal. Right. But in a I think that that’s the big thing. They look around and they might look to somebody and say that’s that’s who I aspire to be. But that person doesn’t share with humility, the mistakes that they’ve made or where they’re going, they just want to put their best foot forward. And then that person sits back and says, Well, I don’t have that person does it, but I’m not sure I have it in me,

Hutson 25:11
right? When reality feel

Jamie T. 25:12
the same way, right. And so, you know, I went through this process around discovering my purpose really first, as of, you know, as a favor to a friend who wanted feedback on their model. And it turned out to be transformational to me, because my mantra out of my purpose is love and encourage, and the way I do that is loving on leaders and encouraging them to recognize that they can grow and that the answers they have are inside of them. And all those people they aspire to be that they see. They never started out perfect. And so we’re on a journey, and let’s go so pulling out of them, the things that they need to do to get to the next level.

Hutson 25:51
Yeah, how do you think I mean, you talked about goals a lot with you and your husband and you professionally. And it’s easy to see when you hit goals when they’re numbers based, specifically. But when you’re talking about a leader growing in kind of an intangible way, which is like leading through other people hired are the folks the CEOs or senior leadership that you’re coaching through? How do they see their success to say, Okay, if this is working, like we’re getting somewhere, I’m, this is making sense to me? Because you can I mean, you can vote the numbers, but that doesn’t mean they’re growing. How do you help them? See that visual kind of feedback, if you will? It’s

Jamie T. 26:34
it’s an art and a little bit of a science, I would say, we I get really granular with each person I work with so that we understand what do you want to work on? And what are the goals? And what would it look like? For like, what does it look like when we achieve that? And we don’t always exactly get to exactly the right place. But we can measure I’ll give you one example. One of the CEOs I was working with, wasn’t feeling great about the relationship that he had with his board. He’s like, you know, I think they support me, but I’m not sure I don’t really feel like I have raving fans not sure. I said, Well, what do you want to work on? And he’s like, you know, my messaging and how it communicates, like, Great, let’s work on that. And I’ll never forget, one of the highlights of my last year was, I had helped this person work on their messaging platform. Now, I didn’t know half of what he was talking about, because I didn’t understand his industry very deeply. I knew enough, but what I was helping him with was how to communicate it in a way that would really excite his audience, which is a skill that I have from Microsoft. And he worked on it and worked on it delivered his his board presentation. And Friday at 4pm. I get this text, Jamie, I knocked it out of the park. It was incredible. Thanks so much. That text probably fueled me for the next month like that was that’s why I do what I do. And that’s the exciting part. So can you measure it? I don’t know, I’m gonna say we measure that right. That was a really big transformational moment between him and the board where he had identified, we have this issue. And now he’s got a new trajectory for that. That’s amazing.

Hutson 28:06
You mentioned how, when you were with Microsoft, you were you were the way that I kind of think about it. And you’ve probably heard this saying is like when I get home, often not all the time, but I find myself sometimes my family gets the leftovers, you pour yourself out and get home and you’re done. And they get to whatever it was not how I want to live my life. And many people feel the same way. And then when you reevaluate your values, and you end up where you are now, there’s I imagine there’s a lot of folks thinking similarly, and they’re thinking too, about this whole new coaching kind of, not, not craze, but as we’re more as a culture, we’re more accepting of a need for help, whether that’s counseling, whether it’s coaching, whether whatever it is, I think we actually see that that’s a good thing. We need growth, and we need people to help us there. And I think a lot of folks are wanting to step out into this world of of whether it’s life coaching or wealth management, or executive coaching, fitness, coaching, whatever it is, like coaching in their expertise. What advice would you give them for? How do you jump into that space? What that look like for for someone?

Jamie T. 29:15
Okay, well, first of all, I have to say, probably a lot of those people that are there need to give themselves their selves, a little bit of grace. If you’re feeling like you’re giving your leftovers, I felt that all the time. right all the time. I felt like there was more I could do. And there probably was and after I had more time there was more I was doing but you know what, my kids were doing great. I was giving I was doing a lot. So I would just say give give yourself some grace for that. For me what I think makes a great coach. I couldn’t have been a great coach. 10 years ago, I had to learn a lot myself and the coaching industry as a lot of most coaches will tell you, especially if you believe in generative coaching which I do that each person has the answers inside of them, you know, and Your job is to really listen well and to really be asked the right questions to help them come to that aha moment. Like when you ask them, you ask a great question. I’m like, oh, yeah, like that aha moment. Yeah, I would add to that, I agree with all of that. But I would add, also, having experience where you can bring a little bit more frame, I think, is where my clients get extra help, you know, and sometimes I’ll jump out on my coaching, I’m like, You know what, I think I was in a situation just like yours. Is it? Okay, if I jump out and share some ideas? And they’re always like, yes. Right, and it takes it to a new level. So I would say, hone your craft, you know, really understand the value that you can bring first. So that’s my, that’s my first thing. The other thing I would say is, why do you want to be a coach? If it’s for yourself, then I’m not sure. That’s not, that doesn’t work for me, right? I think you are a coach, if you really care about helping other people be successful. I hold things very loosely, I don’t have a website. People laugh, it makes I still use my Hotmail account for my email, and very retro, right? I’m not focused on marketing, because I get a lot of clients via word of mouth. And when I meet somebody, I’m looking for a fit, is this a good fit for you to I feel like I can make an impact for you. And if I don’t, I’m gonna pass you on to somebody else. Right? Because it’s all about you getting what you need. It’s not about it’s not about me. So I’ll tell my clients, you know, when when we’re done, we’ll both know it. And you tell me if this isn’t working like so? It’s got to be about the other person all the time. So those are the those are the big those are the big tests. Yeah,

Hutson 31:34
I think it’s good. In in it goes back to values. And it’s work. I think that in our work life, we we, by nature, I’m a golfer, and you look at like PGA Tour and live golf, oh, stuff happening in I always think about like, okay, they’re offering someone to work less and make more money. If you look at just that, like, of course, people are gonna choose that, who does who doesn’t want to work less and have more money, like, I think and more time, like all those things, those were things like everyone’s like, sign me up for that, right? And I think the coaching industry to a lot of people, it seems to answer that question. And you can work from wherever and all those things. But I think what you’re saying is, if it’s not aligning with your values, which is really helping others, or whatever it might be, then it’s not the right move, and it won’t, it won’t actually fill you up, and you’ll still feel all the same things you’re feeling. And don’t forget, like great advice I had somebody gave me when my wife and I got married really young. And I remember, we weren’t having problems. But I remember someone saying this about relationships in general, which is, don’t get married and think that your problems will be solved, because you’re married, or don’t change jobs and think that all the problems you have will just be solved by a new job. It’s the same kind of mentality, right? Like whatever problems you bring into the new job, it’s going to be there. And of course, the job has opened up opportunities. But the problem is aren’t just gonna be solved by this new thing, I think is I mean, it’s another way of saying the grass is always greener, I guess, in some ways, yes. But I would argue like, like you’re saying, it’s got to align with. If you want to be a coach, it’s so that what will happen? Is it gonna make you the person that you want to be like, is it is that helping on that path? If not, it’s not going to provide the desired outcome, and amazed to have more money and may have more free time. But that is it’s not going to ultimately give you what you’re looking for, I think is what you’re saying?

Jamie T. 33:20
Absolutely. I mean, I spent the holidays, obsessing my friends from Microsoft. Oh, no, my big thing was customer obsession. Are we really obsessing over I was obsessing over a couple of my clients, obsessing over how this last meeting that I had right before the holidays. You know, I should have answered that one question better, I should have pursued something better for that one CEO that I work with, who’s amazing. What am I what am I going to research that’s going to bring new insight to that person? So it’s not? There’s a lot of work that goes into it, right? So yes, the flexibility is phenomenal. I love having more control over my life, to be able to structure things so that I can never miss a soccer game. I never miss a soccer game anymore. I tell my clients that I’m like, if you’re ever trying to reschedule me, never missing a soccer game. But the boards that I’m on, sorry, I can’t fly out to San Francisco this quarter. Because there’s a soccer game. And that’s, that’s something that I’m going to do for the next couple of years. So that part is fantastic. But there’s a lot of work that goes on to truly giving yourself to somebody and tying your success to their success. And then when you get those emails, if you’re the type of person that would get that would fly Hi, after for 30 days after the type of email that I got. Maybe coaching is for you. Yeah,

Hutson 34:31
it’s clear you value family, it’s clear you value work is clear. You value others and community. Where do you think those values come come from?

Jamie T. 34:45
Everything that I do and everything is core to my faith. So and it’s funny, you know, I’ve started to even record all my leadership thoughts over the past couple of years since I’ve left Microsoft and I It’s interesting the story that they tell and how well even though I wasn’t purposeful in creating like some of this, what’s your leadership philosophy? I never had that as I was building it. It’s only looking back that you look back and you say, oh, yeah, there it is. And then you hone things, but deeply tied to my faith, just the way I view people. Everybody’s, you know, created in the image of God. And so everybody has worth and a special everybody on your team, everybody that you interact with, you know, and so there’s a really the cornerstone, the foundation of my, of my values. I think, also, I came from a really strong family upbringing. My mom was amazing. My dad was amazing sisters. So I’m really fortunate for that. Yeah. Yeah.

Hutson 35:41
So you mentioned travel your family? Is that something that? Well, tell me how that plays into your into your values and your life? Because travels, travels, awesome. It can also be challenging and all of those things. How does that play in with, with how you raise your kids and how you do life, how you find margin, all those things?

Jamie T. 36:01
So I am very big on everything mindset. I really the older I get, the more I realized, like every battle is in your mind. And so back in 2014, at Microsoft, we were sort of a slow company and my kids didn’t think Microsoft was cool and Satya Nadella came on board. And he brought in Carol Dweck growth mindset into the entire culture of the organization. And I embraced it. I loved it. I’m like, Yes, I feel like this is already how I think but now I have a framework for understanding and to really practice it. And in practicing it along with other leaders at Microsoft, I literally experienced how mindset change can completely turn around a company completely turned on a company. I mean, since it and Adela came on board, I think the stock price is up at least 10 times, maybe 15 times, right? And people will say oh, it’s because they put out new products. No, it started with a mindset change that led to everything else that we do. And so that is a really big thing. For me. Curiosity is at the heart of a growth mindset. So I’m extremely curious. My husband says I have a hard time saying no, which is probably true. But there’s such curiosity and every new person that I meet, every new opportunity, and travel is a big part of that. So I we definitely were very intentional. Especially after we have Microsoft, we want to expose them to all different parts of the world. We want them to see different cultures, we want them to experience different things. We want them to ask questions. So we’ve taken them to every continent, and we were just in Japan last summer. We were in Egypt, the summer before Australia. And you know, the kinds of questions you get from your, you know, when your your son, you know, is looking around, and he’s like, I don’t understand why women wear head coverings in Egypt is that something disrespectful to them, and he goes on as our guide, and the guide explains about the culture significance of that, and how it is such a beautiful part of their culture. And also he can kind of weigh in what’s going on in the world. Those moments are absolutely priceless. So that’s why we travel, and we’re going to continue doing it to expose them and to give them a bigger perspective. Yeah,

Hutson 38:09
curiosity. My son is sometimes like, can you stop being so curious? Because I’m worn out by other questions. By but yeah, it’s such an like the for growth mindset versus fixed mindset. You can’t you can’t grow if you’re not curious, and you can’t grow if if you’re not met with a challenge. And sometimes this goes hand in hand and they’re always on the same things and you can have a challenge and then you know, not be curious about what to do now. But there are there they go hand in hand. And I think as we pursue the people that we want to be more curiosity, I think is it’s it’s important to how have you as a mom, how have you helped instill that other than traveling Of course, how often have you instilled that in your in your children? If you have it sounds like it’s a fair percentage of your family.

Jamie T. 39:02
You know, 2014 was in the relative early days of me raising my family as well. My son was nine when I was exposed to growth mindset nine, seven and five where my kids right so they will roll their eyes to this day. They’re like, Oh, growth mindset again, got it. But think about it on the soccer field. Right. Perfect story on does not related to soccer, but my son Mateo wanted to be in the school play when he was I don’t know in sixth grade. He was a soccer star. And then he wanted to try out for the playoffs. So what are you going to try out for? He’s like Mowgli. That’s the lead in the jungle. The lead I was like, I’ve never heard you dancing act. He’s like I’m gonna do I’m like, great. Go for it. And I’m thinking in the back of my head. Oh, man, this isn’t going to be good. Well, then he came home he was all mad because you didn’t get Mowgli. You might be surprised to hear he got one of the 10 Elephants, right? And so I said, Great. Go off on being an alpha. And by the way, if you want to get the lead in the play next year, I’ll happily say Were to and acting lessons and singing lessons. If you want to put in the time and effort, you can probably grow and get better anyway, like, want to try it? And he said, No, I don’t want to do that. I’m like, Great, then go enjoy being an elephant, and have a great time focus on what you’re going to be successful. How would you feel if hunter who did get the lead? And he was fantastic? How would you feel if he came and took your starting spot on the soccer team never haven’t kicked a soccer ball. Right? So these are the ways I raised my kids, you know, and never let them feel like a victim. So they something bad happens. I’m like, great, that’s terrible. What are you going to do about it? You know, what are some options that we have? How are you thinking differently? I just told my son, who is a freshman in college, and he’s starting to think about internships this summer. And it’s difficult for a freshman to find an internship. He’s in finance. And I start networking with everybody. You know, he’s like, I’m not sure if it’ll lead to anything I said, but if you do nothing, it definitely won’t

Hutson 40:56
open a bunch of doors, he was 100 shots, you don’t take worst

Jamie T. 40:58
case scenario, you learn something, you get better at interviewing, you get better at experiencing things. And he’s like, Okay, I got a growth mindset mom, like, exactly. So we talked about it a lot. And Jeff was at Microsoft as well. So he’s really trained in it. So I think that’s the the number one thing and hopefully we’re raising really resilient, resilient kids that are courageous and curious. And we’ll use it, we’ll see.

Hutson 41:21
Yeah, I mean, you talk about them, kind of rolling their eyes rehearsing it back, has there been a time where you’ve like, kind of seen them exhibited or talk about on their own? And you’re like, Oh, you got it. Finally, are there it is? kind of aha moment is a mom, like, Oh, finally now, it’s not a part of who you are, as you just? Or have you just seen them over time, it just become so much of who they are. They don’t even know it. It’s just like, the normal normal steps they take just kind of exhibit that that mindset.

Jamie T. 41:50
Yeah, I, when I think when teenagers, they agree with mindset, I think they actually get it. And it’s meaning that that’s triggered for them. Like it’s in their head. So I’m gonna go with that. Yeah, but more so to answer your because if they do do that, sometimes they mock me. But more, so I just see it in the way they are, you know, Ethan didn’t make the basketball team. He was maybe in seventh grade. And he was, like, one of two people that got cut, like, everybody else made it and he didn’t, I was like, Oh, how are you feeling? Are you sad? He’s like, No, I’m terrible. First, they come Amphi. You know, like, just, you know, I said, Do you want to work on it? He’s like, Nah, I don’t really like it. I was just gonna do because my friends, right? He’s like, I’m gonna work on soccer. Great, you know, giving this idea that you’re not born with something, you can either work on it and get better and pursue a goal, or we have limited time, you could choose not to and just let that go. Yeah.

Hutson 42:44
Which is not, which is kind of countercultural in a lot of ways. Absolutely. And culture is do all the things and do them all really, really well and be the best at all of them and have no time no margin. And good luck. That’s right. And as a parent is hard to fight back against that, I think, because in his parents, you see our kids and you say how you are talented, all these areas. And so you want to get them? You we know that there’ll be joyful when they are successful, right? It’s absolutely. But also we know that when there’s no time for anything else in the cells, they’re not going to be successful in anything. Well,

Jamie T. 43:20
and failure to write I mean, I think some of the best growth I’ve had is fear of failure, and I don’t like to fail. Do you like to fail? No, no, no, it’s terrible. It feels terrible. But some of the best growth comes out of it, and the learning comes out of it.

Hutson 43:36
Can you think of one like what can you think back of like, what a big failure that turned in? That really helped you take a next step in some some way? Yeah,

Jamie T. 43:43
I mean, this is probably a good business example. And I’ll try to I was leading the US CRM business, the customer relationship management business for Microsoft way back, maybe in like 2006 or seven. And it was right when CRM Online was a one of the only online business process prod business products, pre sales, you know, so there were some major mistakes that we made, that I made, and we were slow, and we didn’t transform fast enough, you know, eventually did okay, but it was slow. Years later, they gave me the ERP sort of the the financial and back office, you know, solutions business to run. And right when we were launching an online product, and nobody thought that anybody would put their financials in the cloud, right? No one’s gonna do that. Right. So I thought I would do that. Oh, no, we have to be all in on this because I learned being half in with CRM, that did not work. So it’s either all in or nothing. And you take that learning and that failure and you put we pushed hard and the first year I’m happy to spend more time but it’s probably not as relevant. We did 74% of our new business in the cloud compared to the rest of The world at 4%. Just because we focus on it, we didn’t say there’s options we’re going all in, and we’re going to fix what’s broken. And we’re going to do it fast. And we’re going to pull off the band aid. That was a huge learning that was leapfrogged our business in the US and made it really successful. Probably one of the most fun times and anybody who’s listening to this that was on the team at that time. Oh, that’s a good time. Yeah,

Hutson 45:22
well, it sounds like you were, in order to have a growth mindset, you have to be someone who desires to grow in general. Yes. Which sounds like that’s that you are that person anyways. Can you think back to, like you said, support a family? Do you? Were you raised in a way where failure was reflected, wasn’t promoted, but failure was not the end of the world? Was that your family help you take those opportunities and turn them into successes? Where did your Where did your love or passion or even like, like looking for this opportunity? Where’d that come from? Do you think?

Jamie T. 46:00
I think my parents, my mom, was a little bit more conservative, but she would always push and support me to try whatever I wanted to try. And she was a single mom, and would go out of her way, always, you know, at her own expense to drive me here or there to pursue anything. So that was amazing. And it was my dad’s mindset. I remember my dad, when we decided to move to Charleston, it was completely on a whim. And when we put the, you know, when we decided to do it, I was like, Dad, I don’t know if I can do this. Like, this is crazy. You know, I’m not even sure if Microsoft is gonna love it long term. And he goes, Jamie, it’s not like a tattoo that’s permanent. If you don’t like it, move back. Yeah, this was my dad, the type of advice I would always get from my dad. Yeah, which was, you make a mistake, move on. So I think I got it from from there. And then seeing it inside a company and watching it, how it could change the trajectory of an organization, when you create the environment where you don’t lop off somebody’s head if they make a mistake, which was not necessarily what Microsoft used to be. And so when you give people the freedom to experiment, to learn from their mistakes, and move on, the kind of innovation that unlocks, that’s where it gets really exciting from a business perspective. And I love talking to leaders about incorporating a growth mindset culture, to drive business transformation and business results. So I’m transforming my family. And also the transformation on the business results as well.

Hutson 47:33
Yeah, I think from a business standpoint, and you and you get on one hand, like freedom to fail that culture. It’s you understand how I can think you can understand, like, why that exists, because obviously, numbers are numbers, and you need revenue growth, I mean, those things, and sometimes those failures lead to big issues. We also know that those failures tend to lead to other things as well. So you understand how that culture starts? I would imagine changing that culture is difficult is super challenging. And not imagined starts from the top, but not always, but most of the time, right? Have you seen some companies go from a bad culture to a good culture? What, what is the number one driving factor for a company kind of cultural change,

Jamie T. 48:23
I have a strong point of view that for it to work well, it has to start at the top. Because everything has to be reinforced. I’ll give you a great example of Microsoft. And then a quick example of a current client, right? So Microsoft, Microsoft always had a great culture, I was always proud to work there, I was always gonna carry a bag that said Microsoft on it, even when people in the airport were like, telling me all the things I didn’t like about Microsoft. So I don’t want it when I say these things. I don’t want it to sound like I’m disparaging Microsoft, but Microsoft got better. It was not as good. And I got better, right? The culture, prior to growth mindset was very much an expert culture. So I would be running, you know, 100 Couple 100 million dollar business, I would go into my monthly business review. And I would prepare like crazy. And I would say, All right, I’m gonna keep the focus over here. Look over here at all the great things we’re doing, please don’t ask me about these things I don’t want to talk about I need 30 more days to fix them. We’re gonna do a dance. And then I got out and I said, you made it through another, another month, right? Come new growth mindset culture, the business review goes like this. I’m very proud of the team. Here’s all the things that are going really well. Here’s a couple of areas that we’re not doing as well as we thought, here’s what we tried. They didn’t work out the way we want it to. Here’s what we’re doing about it. Does anybody else have any suggestions for me, okay. Think about the difference what starts to happen, bad news starts traveling fast, you start getting more collaboration, and then but the leadership at the top has to reward that behavior. They have to say, we’re going to reward the Jamie Tozzi that knows her business so well that she’s going to point out the flaws, not the Jamie Tozzi that just has a great song and dance and knows how to hide the bad stuff, right? And so you can say you have a growth mindset culture, but if you don’t reinforce it from the top through all the activities, it folds like a deck of cards. So

Hutson 50:11
that’s really good. That’s really good. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. Absolutely.

Jamie T. 50:17
This is a lot of fun, Hudson I love what you’re doing and congratulations to your success.

Hutson 50:21
Thanks so much.

Episode 4:

Navigating the World of Entrepreneurship with Katie Lyon

Katie Lyon, Co-Founder at Allegiance Flag Supply

Tune in for a captivating conversation with Katie Lyon, promising empowerment and motivation on your entrepreneurial journey. In this episode, we explore all facets of entrepreneurship. From navigating the highs and lows of starting her own ventures to collaborating with new partners to launch Allegiance Flag Supply, Katie shares invaluable insights and lessons learned. She candidly discusses the challenges faced as a female entrepreneur, underlining the significance of resilience, authenticity, and adaptability in the startup landscape. Katie’s narrative will inspire listeners to pursue their entrepreneurial aspirations with courage and conviction.

Katie Lyon launched and runs Allegiance Flag Supply. Follow them on Instagram @AllegianceFlagSupply

Hutson 0:13
The joy in goal setting podcast is proud to be partnered with and brought to you by the ideal life. The ideal life offers a multimedia platform that is focused on cultivating a growth mindset. Here you’ll find a supportive community of coaches, valuable online resources and transformative courses aimed at helping you lead a more gratifying and joyful life. Ready to take the next step in your personal growth journey. Visit the ideal to explore their wealth and resources and join the vibrant growing community today. Welcome to the joy and goal setting podcast where we empower individuals to discover their purpose, achieve their goals and experience a joyful life through encouraging conversations. I’m your host Hudson DODDS. Today, we’re sitting down with Katie Lyons. Katie is a mother, entrepreneur. And her product was the number one best seller on Amazon. We discuss how to find your way when feeling lost the joy of parenting, and what it’s like to grow and scale a business.

JT Welcome to show so glad you’re here.

Katie L. 1:22
Thank you for having me.

Hutson 1:23
Yeah. So when the New Year question I’ve been asking, pretty much everyone is. Is there anything that you’re exceptionally excited about in this new year? Or? And? Or is there something that’s kind of like, I don’t know, making you nervous about this year? uncertain? Maybe?

Katie L. 1:41
Yeah. I’m very excited for it. Thank you for having me. Yeah, I really appreciate being here. Thanks for thinking of me. I think 2024 is gonna be really good. We, one of the founders of allegiance flag supplies. So I think professionally, we’ve got a really good framework of how allegiance is gonna grow in a very healthy manner this year with a lot of new hires, and a lot of purpose driven goals that we’re very excited about. And then outside of that I’m a mom of a one and a two year old. And I work with my husband, my husband is the other founder of allegiance, Wes, and one of my friends from middle school, actually, Max Berry is the other founder of allegiance. So, you know, Wes and I work together so professionally, we’re excited, and then also got a lot going on at home. But I think there can be fear with that as well. Like, I think if I think of what my biggest fear is, this year, or maybe just in life, is the fear of being unbalanced. Like I we can certainly being married and living, you know, being roommates and being coworkers, with my husband, we’ve always made it a goal to not bring legions home with us. So, you know, always finding that balance of being a co founder of a business but also being a mom and prioritizing our marriage. And, and so I think a healthy fear of becoming unbalanced in certain way. And then also, you know, spiritually to always having to make sure I’m in check there and giving back to the community where I can when I can, and my relationship with my higher power I call God.

Hutson 3:37
Yeah, no, I think that’s wise. And I think use the term balanced. There’s a one of the one of my been coaching a guy for over a year now. And his mantra we call it is balance. And we talk a lot about that for all of his purpose. All of his life roles were like trying moving towards balance. But I love that you use that term, and especially from the spouse side, the mom’s side, the spiritual side, you hit almost all of our life roles that we have for our seven life roles to talk about and in bringing balance. Well, maybe we’ll dive right in there then. I guess one question I have is over the past while since you started allegiance with West Max, have there been times you felt unbalanced? And if you did, what did you do to like, kind of rebalance yourself? Or was it yeah, we’ll start there.

Katie L. 4:32
Okay. I do think there have definitely been times where I feel unbalanced and it’s like, I have to like I think training. I think it comes with practice, like I’m getting more and more comfortable with knowing Okay, something doesn’t feel right here and like taking like learning the pause a little bit and like pausing and like sitting with myself remind me like, okay, you know what, I’ve really been throwing my myself into work lately, and I really don’t feel like I’ve been there for my kids this week like I really want to, and really like forgiving yourself moving on and then just like, hey, I’m not going to be able to take that call tomorrow morning. I’m going to take the kids into work and I need not and maybe we can do it later.

Hutson 5:21
Yeah. Are there any triggers? I used to feeling? Are there any moments you like, you’ve noticed with yourself like, Oh, when I start being short, or when I start doing acts like I know, something’s off? Is there something you’ve noticed in your life like that? It is.

Katie L. 5:34
And it’s usually around 3am. Like, the most unknown, opportune time when I’m like, okay, something’s feeling not right. My husband’s grandfather always said live life in moderation. And like, everything’s in moderation. So I feel like that when I think of balance, it’s everything needs to be in moderation. So like, if something is I usually the middle of the night that I’m like, Man, my mind is spinning right now. I bring up work, but like, it could be about kids, you know, like, it could be like, well, like, I’m just like, really obsessing over like, Rod Oh, no, like my son, my, again, they’re wanting to so we got low stakes behavior kind of things here. But like, his teacher thing, like, yeah, we’re working on him needing to share. So it’s like, oh, my gosh, I’m just like, obsessing over that, like, well, it’s boiled. It’s me,

Hutson 6:26
it’s like, finding all the things he wants. I’m causing him to be a jerk. And yeah, it’s

Katie L. 6:31
it’s like, okay, let’s, let’s kind of balance here a little bit. Let, and really my spirituality is so important to me. So you know, that’s where I kind of gained those tools or kind of go into that toolbox a little bit. And like, let’s pray about it. Let’s just give that to God. And I can do that. Parenting I can do that. Being a spouse, I can do that with my work. Yeah,

Hutson 6:50
no, that’s great. What you mentioned toolbox. Praying, like you mentioned, it sounds like it’s one of those tools that you can kind of really deep dive into. There are other tools that you use when you when you find yourself not spinning out of control, but like mind is, we all we all do it right, our minds turn and we didn’t say the right thing to the right person, we should have said this, or we should have done that. Or man work is killing me here. Whatever it is. So what other tools have you use to kind of like Get your mind out of there and bounce back?

Katie L. 7:20
I would say the tool, being able to pause that’s a big one for me is just like pausing, taking a moment letting it digest Don’t be reactive. Another thing that I like to use a lot is just keeping my side of the street clean. So it’s like, you know what, like, I was too quick there or you know, that didn’t that didn’t really sound right, I need to go back and like apologizing and moving on. So not dwelling on it, but just taking care of it. And like just let’s keep doing and then also just reminding myself that like, if I’m just focused on doing the next right thing, whatever I can feel like, in my heart that really is, then I’m doing what I’m suppose yeah,

Hutson 8:01
then you’re aligned. And you mentioned earlier kind of purpose goals. Having purposeful goals with your company sounds like also having your own purpose. Right? And like knowing knowing what that purpose is, so that when you do make those decisions, you’re aligning with something, because if you don’t have a purpose, then you can’t make sure like how do you how would anyone know that the right decision makes it like you there’s no nothing to hold true to right, having your own purpose. And you’ll have some either stated family values or to have you in West kind of like, created them. And you can look back and say it was a family, these are the things that we kind of hold dear, that keeps us as a family, living our purpose. Yes.

Katie L. 8:41
And I think it carries over to us professionally as well, like a word that we use at allegiance. And we really, you know, again, we’re a young family. So it’s like, vocab words in general with our kids are very, but like the words that we’re using as we start allegiance that it’s like so important to us is so our number one core value at allegiance is integrity. And so carrying that into our family is something that we have found like that comes up almost daily and like chatting of

Hutson 9:09
professional values is translated to keeping you accountable at home. Yeah, it’s

Katie L. 9:13
just funny because I almost feel like maybe they did start at home. Like it’s something that really matters to Wes and I but now that we’re having conversations with young children of like, we really want to put integrity in the first and foremost front of their mind as well as we do with our employees or our vendors or customers or agencies or anyone we work with. Yeah,

Hutson 9:32
well let’s let’s get a little bit into legions. So for those of us that don’t know allegiance, what is allegiance? How did it how did it come to be all those kind of things?

Katie L. 9:41
So allegiance Max Western I started allegiance flag supply about five years ago. We make high quality American flags Made in America by supporting American jobs and 100% and American supply chain. And we also give back to military military organizations with purchases as well. So we started in our garage in West Daschle, just with a small batch of American flags, Wes is an Eagle Scout. So he knows a lot about flag code that was kind of something that he knew more about of, you know, it’s important to fly high color or a flag that’s not deteriorating. And when it is, please take it down and part with it respectfully. So he kind of had like the eye of paying attention to the flags. But Max, Wes and I, what we all have in common is just strong. Patriots, we’re very patriotic, we all want to fly an American flag at our home. And we also love the idea of supporting American jobs as well. So kind of with those, with that dream, or that vision, we started making American flags. And since then, in the last five years, we brought all manufacturing in house. So we have our manufacturing and fulfillment center out in North Charleston. Um, we’re actually building a new plant right now to open in March. But as you know, it could be a little delayed because things can be promised.

Hutson 11:08
When on June, it could be

Katie L. 11:11
a little later we Yeah. But so we’re building a 25,000 square foot facility out there, which is exciting. And we’re currently supporting over 70 American jobs, which is awesome, and got a American textile plant and a fulfillment center. And then all of our offices with our corporate positions are all on King Street downtown.

Hutson 11:31
It’s amazing. From the garage 25,000 square feet. That’s

Katie L. 11:34
right. Yep.

Hutson 11:35
So you always have some core values. So let’s go all the way back to the garage kind of timeframe. Do you is Was there a time when you can remember, you’re like, Okay, this is this is more than just like a thing in our garage like we’ve we’ve found something like this is this is it work, and we’re gonna kind of go all in Yes,

Katie L. 11:53
there was definitely a pivotal moment. And it was really March 2020. It was when COVID hit. There are so many small American businesses that, unfortunately, COVID was detrimental to them. And we actually, and we have so much gratitude for this, we experienced the complete opposite with our company. It was kind of a side project up until then, we all had different jobs. And when COVID started and some layoffs were happening, and at that exact same time, allegiance, we’ve gotten our story, right, like exactly like who and what and like where we are as a brand. We got that down really tight, we got our price to the point that we really needed it to be. And we started investing in meta paid ads. And they all that started right around January 2020. Kind of like where we locked all that in. And we started running ads and started picking up traction, then COVID hit and everyone was stuck in doors. And there was really the sense especially in the beginning of like, we’re all in this together. And like it was another one of those like 911 Like let’s pull together and I’m proud to be an American and fly my American flag and flag sales skyrocketed in this country right at that time and has not slowed down since. And so we wrote that that is a big contributing factor as well as Home Depot and a lot of those stores shutting down in the beginning of COVID. So E commerce sales just like skyrocketed as well. So we were a patriotic econ brand who just gotten our story, right and started running ads. And it was like, is are we going to do this. And so we all some of us left our corporate jobs. And we both was asked to leave our corporate jobs during

Hutson 13:58
volunteer hours.

Katie L. 14:00
It all just kind of opened up for a lot of people. And we took a huge risk, and we jumped on and it has been hockey stick growth since then. Yeah, that’s

Hutson 14:08
super exciting. So you mentioned, like you said, purpose driven goals. And in some ways that’s new. Obviously, you have, you know, to hockey stick, you have to kind of, in some ways fly by the seat of pants. How do you how do you balance and manage both being react, like reacting to those situations, while also being strategic with goal setting.

Katie L. 14:30
So that’s what we talk about a lot, like, especially the three of us, like grow healthy, because you can grow broke, especially like with inventory management. And so, Allegiant has, we, our number one issue at Allegiant is being out of stock, which is a problem. It’s a good problem to have a big problem. We really can’t keep up with the demand and we still haven’t, and so we have never been fully and stocked during our peak season, which is the month of April, to really August. So it was about six months ago, we introduced like, this idea of just being like laser focused on what it is that we need to grow in a very healthy way. And when we did that, we kind of like looked under the hood a little bit. We’re like, we have shiny object syndrome. Like we’re constantly trying to get new people to our website, and to purchase and we don’t always even have something to sell them. Like why are we so as obsessed as we are with people like growing, growing, growing and getting eyes on our on our brand? Why aren’t we putting that same energy into operations,

Hutson 15:48
which also leads to like experience, customer experience, right? Giving the customer what is their experience, like and if they’re not happy, then they’re not going to be repeat or total? Tell your story.

Katie L. 15:57
Absolutely. And that was that’s a huge core value of ours is prioritizing lifetime value. And if we’re not offering them anything, and they’re on a waitlist, like we’re not doing our customers justice at all. So that’s been our biggest shift for sure has been our number one goal of 2024 is not taking our hand off of the marketing lever, like being able to push it down as far as we can and not sell out, like how do we get inventory on our shelves? And so, you know, your first question of 2024, like, I think that’s really where my excitement of 2024 is going to be a great year, because this is the first time we’ve ever gone into a year, feeling as confident as we do to be able to grow in a healthy way and not not sell out and also being like, we run national TV commercials and then having to call and say like stop running commercials, we don’t have anything to sell that that really is not a great feeling for someone that puts so much resources and time and energy in trying to get people to enjoy the experience

Hutson 17:04
of Oh, yes, well, and it’s not like you stopped doing all the things. But to be able to, to be laser focused as a company allows for the energy to then go and actually do all of those things. Because you’re not like running from one to one like, you know, like this has got to get done. And of course those things, they end up getting done almost as a byproduct because the spillover effect, once you’re, when you’re focused and you’re achieving those little mini goals, whatever you set up for, maybe it’s I’m sure one of the goals is to not be out of stock in those months, right. So once you hit one of those months, not in stock like you celebrate, it’s huge, you get excited, and that releases that energy to then go and do all the other marketing pushes and events and things like that, that totally still happen. Yes.

Katie L. 17:47
And that’s kind of goes into like the inch wide mile deep, or reverse of that. It’s like we were like giving what is like turning our lights on the attention it needed because we were like, Oh, well, it’s so much more fun to go out and start a YouTube channel. Like, why are we starting a YouTube channel? Like, we don’t have a proper flag. No one’s gonna be watching. They’re not even a flag to give anybody so that was such a big shift for us. And then exactly like once we start like, really like achieving those goals, then it opens up to like, Okay, we’ve done that now we can slowly start introducing like another shiny object. That’s not that we’re not grasping at straws,

Hutson 18:31
you can move you can move the focus that once you once you’ve actually learned how to do the thing you’re focusing on right now it makes total sense. If you want to discover how the ideal lives founder Mark Condon quit smoking, shed 80 pounds, established a thriving logistics company, and embrace the challenges of becoming an Ironman triathlete. All thanks to the framework we referenced in today’s episode, order a copy of his inspiring book, the ideal life today, within a website or any major retailer, begin your journey towards a fulfilling life filled with purpose and achievement. So you said you had some some jobs prior to allegiance were you doing prior to allegiance?

Katie L. 19:12
Yes. So, um, gosh, shiny object syndrome, I think is something for me for a long time. You know, I had some like, I was kind of lost for a really long time. And like, I don’t know if anyone else can relate to that at all. But yeah,

Hutson 19:30
a lot of folks can and a lot of folks feel lost right now even in a job

Katie L. 19:34
right? Yeah, I think so. I think like I where I least I hope like someone else can relate to that is like i i had i just bounced around a lot like school, high school for me was really hard academically. I have learning challenges that, you know, can maybe like affect the self esteem of a young student and I really had no idea what was Gonna do I think I freaked my parents out beyond belief. And so, you know, after college, I moved out to LA and had a ton of fun and needed to come home. But I went out there to work for a photographer, and we work with Fender Guitars and took a lot of cool pictures for some musicians. And that wasn’t for me. So I came home and then I think I was babysitting and someone told me like, wow, kids really like you. So I was like, Okay, I’ll become a teacher. So I did that for a little bit. And, you know, it’s really funny. Someone asked me yesterday, What’s the best advice you’ve ever given? And someone told me one time like, stop following the compliment? Like, I was always like, like, Hey, you take a really good picture, like, Oh, thanks are like, wow, that kid like, likes you like, well, then that’s besides like, the same thing like to myself, like, what do I Yes. And I was just constantly searching for someone else to tell me like what I’m good at. And so I, you know, after a little of searching and bouncing around, and really kind of feeling lost in my 20s, I decided that I was going to start my own company before allegiance, I started a company called for good. Where I sold kitchen supplies online. I was a one woman show. And it was awesome. I was the number one selling product on Amazon on Black Friday and 2015. And it was like, Oh my gosh, I’ve struck gold. Like, this is what I’m doing. Like, I can’t believe like, of course I made to do Oh, this is like, Well, no, that didn’t really last that long. But still, like I definitely started to get like, and we can go into why that didn’t last long if you want. But I got a little bit of a taste of like, okay, this is what I’m supposed to do. Yeah, well,

Hutson 22:01
actually, let’s go there. So well, yeah, what happened to where it didn’t last long. But then that obviously prepared you for where you are now, which all of these things did, right? You learned a lot of things that you weren’t, which forced you then to like we talked about earlier, figuring out what is my purpose, I just been doing all these things, he will tell me but not really what I want to do what I made to do what I’m on this earth for. But this was a good step there. So what were the stepping stones to get from there to allegiance? And also why Why didn’t that work out?

Katie L. 22:30
Yes. So I’ll even back up a little bit. So when we got so we max Western, we’re all getting our master’s degree degree at College of Charleston. And that’s where we I met Max again. And so the three of us were like hanging out all the time. And we’re like, gosh, we really do. Eventually, we’d love to like start our own business. Like those are just conversations we were having all the time. The two of them, they go and start their own business. And they don’t invite me and I ended up being their like, fulfillment person. And I was like, well, this kind of things. But they started a company. I’ll give Max the credit. He was like on East Bay Street and seeing all those bachelorette parties like walk around. And he was like, where are they all buying their bachelorette gear. And they’re like, him in West came up with this idea of packaging together like a bachelorette set is all you need one stop shop, a one stop shop for bachelorette parties. And they like, put it together in a kit from China. So this, and I’ll kind of get into the opposite of this. But sourcing everything from China, very cheap, selling exclusively on Amazon. Disposable. repurchases like those are the opposite of Legion literally the opposite of allegiance. And those were really the things that we were focused on. Like that’s what they focus on when they came out. Yeah, cheapest and most money, right? Yeah, and sell it on Amazon. Like that’ll be the platform. And so they started doing really well they became the like the number one bachelorette product on Amazon like they were doing it on the side but like, they were still doing really well and I was like y’all wanna invite me to the party, you know, and I’m the one like staying up late and like shipping these out to Amazon like I’m your fulfillment manager. And so like well I’m gonna go do it myself. So I that Christmas I got a su V for Christmas. It’s like under vacuum. If anyone has not heard of a suevey it means under vacuum in French on it’s a style of cooking and I got this like cooking apparatus and it recommended that you vacuum steal your food to cook it to like cook it at the precise temperature. And I didn’t have a vacuum sealer like it’s one of those like large things. And Wes and I had a teeny house and I was like well I really don’t want to buy like a vacuum sealer just for this and we had just moved into this house and I had just like started Like it was like the vacuum. bags for clothes. Yeah, like where you suck? Yeah, thank you. Yeah, well, it’s like with a handheld bag, not quite the same, no. And so it was like, I wonder if I could do that with food like with these food bags. So I contacted a manufacturer in China. And I asked like that we’re making these like moving bags for different for like, Bed Bath and Beyond. And those companies and I asked if they could just make the bags a lot smaller, but still at the handhold suction. And if they could package together a set for me like a Sufi cooking set, yeah. And so you know, back and forth with China, the, my friends in China and, and they, we came together and we created this kid and I sold on Amazon. And that’s when I became the that that next Christmas, I became the top selling product on Amazon. And number two was the SU V itself. So like, I just kind of like rode that wave with them. And then the distributor that I was working with out of China had hijacked my listing. And they took over my entire product and stopped selling to me and like I was out of business overnight. Oh my gosh, yeah. So I was like, not really happy with the idea of like not owning like having like ownership of my own product, not being able to source things domestically. Not really having like, a real relationship with the manufacturing, prod Jack, then like Macs and West started having similar feelings. And then their bachelorette kit got like kicked off of Amazon, there’s not a number, you can pick up the phone and talk to anybody. So we were like, Let’s go out and start the insidiousness of this and started Allegiant.

Hutson 26:59
That’s so wild. So, I mean, it took you a lot of different kinds of jobs and activities to figure out kind of where you want to go with your life. But now that you’re there, looking back, folks that are that are kind of, like you said, spinning your wheels and lost. How can someone get out of there? Well, like what I mean, obviously, I mean, some things are happenstance. But you’re you just took it upon yourself to, like, look inwardly and say, like, I need to move forward, like, I need to do my own thing. Yeah, I’ve seen other folks do it. What are some ways to get out of being stuck?

Katie L. 27:38
You know, I think it has to be so personal. And you know, what a really big thing for me is an everyone’s different. And I even like, kind of go back and forth of even offering this because this is what worked for me, but it might not be for everyone. I started eliminating alcohol, I eliminated that from my life, and things just started getting better. Like, I was just able to kind of like reprioritize things clear. And I don’t know, that was just a really big turning point for me. And like, I don’t really see myself going and introducing that again. I can’t say never, but that that has been like a huge life change for me over the last many years. Yeah.

Hutson 28:22
And seems like that has opened up in a lot of ways for you the ability to like really hone in on values and purpose. Definitely giving you clarity, in a lot of ways,

Katie L. 28:35
certainly, and just kind of like removing noise and like, I think like, letting off steam like in our culture. Certainly. And again, this is not to, like judge those that do that have a different lifestyle, but just for me personally, like I when I now like have a huge day, like I kind of like can reprioritize what fills my cup? And it’s not like maiming maybe as like meaningless as Yeah, something like that would have been

Hutson 29:07
right. Right. Well, yeah, I mean, you have your like we talked about you’re a mom, your daughter, your sister, your spouse and the business owner and all the other things that come along with right so what feels You’re a cop out I mean, you’re doing all those things. I know that all those fill your cup in some ways, but you’re more than that. Like what are what are what are the things that you enjoy doing outside for yourself? Yeah.

Katie L. 29:31
Being I mean, I know being a mom is like one of those you know, it’s it’s a, it’s a title in itself or whatever it is, but the things that come with the mom, like just being with my children is just the greatest joy that I currently have in being present with them and, and doing things that they enjoy ended up being my favorite part of the day. It’s fulfilling. I just love spending time with my family. Yeah, it’s really nothing special. Perfect like I don’t really have like a strong hobby today. That’s like, you know, that’s an I love to bowl. I don’t see that. You know what, maybe in the future I’ll say like, yeah, I really picked up poker but like today, it’s

Hutson 30:18
just like being a massage on this thing. Now

Katie L. 30:20
I have seen no, I have started playing mahjong a little bit. So

Hutson 30:24
you’re about to be a massage. Ah, yeah.

Katie L. 30:25
I have started that a little. After hours. Some girls come over. Yes. Late Night being like 701 brought Mahjong over. And that’s been really fun.

Hutson 30:39
Yeah, I think like you said, but it’s someone on the offseason one talked about feeling like she needs him to fill her cup. And I think it’s so important. You said prioritizing, prioritizing your marriage. Which is not bringing work home and making that central in your family and being president like all those words are so important. I think those words do feel fill you up if you allow them to, instead of why have to write must write like that alone fills you up. Because we know that’s a part of all those things make you up who you are as a whole. You don’t just you’re not just Mom, you’re not just wife and you’re not just daughter. You’re not just you know, you don’t you do all those things.

Katie L. 31:18
Right. Right. And then I love back here, like, gratitude. On behind us right here. I think that has so much to do with it too. Like, you know, I think it could be like, oh, man, like, you know, all I’ve got like, now I’ve got to go spend time with kids or Yeah, think that like, no,

Hutson 31:35
that’s very normal. That’s like, it’s it’s laughable, but it’s real. I mean, there’s a lot of folks who it’s not easy, right? And it can be to a point of like, I have to I don’t you know, like no time for

Katie L. 31:49
the office, like, No, I get to go to the office. Yeah, like Oh, like that you can always find gratitude in every situation. And like, I really do. 100% believe that, there is always the brighter flip of the coin,

Hutson 32:01
when I love how you didn’t just continue being a photographer. I mean, and you didn’t just continue being a teacher, because a lot of folks will just continue in there and feel stuck and feel a loss. But instead, you continue to search for what gave you your purpose, right?

Katie L. 32:19
Definitely. And like something I found about myself, like I’m money motivated, like, that is just something that I had learned about myself. And teaching is such an incredible job. i The the teachers in our country are the true heroes. And like I believe that fully and I just I’ve found about myself that I was looking for a goal oriented career path that was more money driven and like, and, you know, some people might even like back away of saying that, but like, I just, I once I figured that out about myself, like something started, like what I’m looking for me? Yeah,

Hutson 32:56
you had to do that. To know this is meaningful, I want to create meaning. But this isn’t filling me up in these ways.

Katie L. 33:03
Absolutely. And also with that connection of being like independent from friends and family to like, allegiance is 100% bootstrapped. We haven’t ever taken outside or money or any investors money or family money. And that’s something that like, brings so much joy and accomplishment to max Wes. And I like, at the end of the day, it’s it’s the three of ours, money and attention that is allegiance, and like we’re not that’s like, to us, it feels like the true entrepreneur spirit. Like we don’t answer to anybody else. There are no investors that are like, Alright, I need reports this month of like, what are you doing with my money? Like, it’s it’s us at the end of the day. And that’s something that I’ve just learned, again, about myself, like being money oriented, or it’s when I can do it with my own

Hutson 33:52
would also probably allows you must company standpoint, to be free or to live in your values, because you’re not answering to someone we’re like, Well, we, we wanted to have integrity, but actually we have to skip over there because you got to cut costs to pay, right? It’s absolutely,

Katie L. 34:07
yes. It just it’s a real way to have 100% ownership.

Hutson 34:12
Yeah. So you mentioned core values, the company, how do those values? How many do you have? I guess we have

Katie L. 34:21
four were so we just went through our quarterly Summit. And so we’re reviewing some to maybe like, as we open up new job positions. So many of our core values were originally written almost for customer service, because that was outside of manufacturing. That was kind of the first department that we opened up. So we wanted them to kind of have some values when they’re speaking to customers. So we’re almost looking a little bit now as we’re opening up, you know, finance positions and product development and senior creator and econ manager. We’re like, how can we make these? So the long answer to say we’re kind of four or five right now?

Hutson 34:55
They’re in Warlock.

Katie L. 34:56
Yeah, we’re a little in flux right now.

Hutson 34:57
How have you all as a company Um, how have y’all made it a point in what you’re doing to ensure those values or are lived by and aren’t just on the wall? Yeah, are actually a part of what you do.

Katie L. 35:11
I think that’s so important. Like, that’s something that we took. So we just brought in an HR director and like, that’s kind of been her number one, right? We call them rocks at the Legion says like her number one rock for this year is to make our messaging and our core values cohesive across the entire company. Because right now we’ve got manufacturing out in North Charleston, and then we’ve got our kind of corporate team downtown, and then our customer service team, they’re all remote in America. And so we prioritize hiring military spouses, so like they they’re kind of can move around a lot, but they don’t come into an office every day. So it’s like, how can we have everyone feel a little less disjointed? And that’s been like, coming in, it’s it, I can certainly see priorities of like getting payroll and getting all like these very important HR rocks. To like, prioritize, but number one for us, as people need to know what our core values are, and they need to live by them. And then especially in hiring, too, is like, what right now our hiring process. It’s kind of what I’ve been doing. Today, I’ve been in and out of six interviews. And it’s like, we have our one, our 30 minute conversation with the direct hire or the direct report. And then after that, it’s just a core value interview. If you come in for our second interview, it’s for an hour with the founders and the HR director, and like, we don’t really talk about the position, we talk about the person.

Hutson 36:41
Yeah, well, that helps from a management standpoint of retaining good people. I mean, it totally gives you better chance of keeping them and you want to be aligned, doesn’t mean they’re not great people, but they need to be aligned with what you’re about and what you’re doing, the more we

Katie L. 36:54
believe, like everyone can be coached, everyone can like learn, and we live in an in a world now where like informations out there, like there’s really not an excuse to kind of not know something anymore. It’s like, the number one priority is like, do you get it? And do you want to be here? Yeah,

Hutson 37:09
yeah, we I mean, we’re a growth mindset company. So we obviously believe, of course, you can grow and you will grow and everyone will change. But once they can do the basic, whatever you need to do in the role, they need to fit into the values, whatever those are, and every company has been values. And that’s okay, we’re all different. Not everyone fits in everything, but they need to fit into a world in which they can buy in the values and live them out. And

Katie L. 37:32
I love also that we finally came up with agreement that they can be working to, like, I, I would, I think at first we were like, we can’t ever change our core values, because this is who we are. And like we need to be rigid, because we don’t want to change who we are. But like, allegiance changes as well. Like we all change,

Hutson 37:53
like what people change, and companies change as the company grows. So do priorities. And so do your values, everything changes, right? Yeah, having the flexibility is huge. I mean, from a personal and like a personal standpoint, of course, like different when you become when you get married when you become a mom or dad, like your values do stay the same. But they change, right? Because now all of a sudden they’re not just solely focused. They’re focused on a community aspect now and that’s a little bit different. Definitely not vastly different, but

Katie L. 38:26
a little bit different. For sure it can get different. Yeah,

Hutson 38:29
yeah. So you mentioned some really cool goals in that are that y’all have set for legions? Sounds like some might be around. Not not selling out? How do y’all go about setting those goals? What does that look like yesterday quarterly Summit? I don’t know if that’s when I set the goals. Like who’s involved in there? What do you do? Yeah.

Katie L. 38:52
So we do so we have introduced something called the entrepreneur operating system recently. And so we kind of like just follow that framework. So within departments we once a week we do meetings, we call them Elton’s. So like we go in and we prioritize the root cause issues, we put them on the issues and to do lists and then we just do them every week. So like everyone is very aware and on top of what it is that they need to be working on at all times. And it’s not like running around with our heads cut off chickens. So that like weekly then builds on to these like quarterly meetings that we have where Max Wes and I come in and we’re able to like from gathering all of these l 10 meetings throughout the week leading up to Him then we can kind of see like okay, what do our we call them rocks? What do our rocks of this quarter need to be based on what we had done previously and what coming from these to do Do I need to continue to, you know, be what we need to tackle. So like inventory issue coming out of that. And then max, Wes and I have very clear different roles at allegiance. Like, I think it’s very lucky, I guess that the three of us found ourselves and we are stark in our, in our positives that we bring to the company, but we also work well together. So it’s great that none of us like overlap, like we all know, no,

Hutson 40:34
you’re gonna do and you know, a role. Yeah. And in that, that’s your expertise and your passion. So you can run through it, right. It’s

Katie L. 40:41
not like, did you get that? I don’t know. Did you get that? It’s like, No, clearly, I’m not dealing with finance, right? It’s incredibly obvious.

Hutson 40:51
So, five or 10 years from now, what would be like, we’ve knocked to the park. This is where leading says this is what we’re, this is what we look like.

Katie L. 40:59
Yeah. So, um, what my like role is at allegiance is I’m all branding, creative marketing, like anything forward facing anything that like the public touches on allegiance, like that kind of falls into my bucket. So this year, we’re bringing in a branding agency and a creative director, to really like rebrand allegiance, but really, like keep it the same, like nothing’s broken. But there’s just a lot that we want to kind of do there. So I think like, once we lock this, like immediate goal in the next five to 10 years, you know, we’ve certainly talked about, it would be great. There’s internally, two ways that we’ve been calling it one, the purveyor of all American goods made in America. So being just like, the One Stop the one shop for all made America highest quality products supporting an American supply chain. Another way that we keep saying is like the Yeti of American goods. So like, you know that if you’re buying it from allegiance, like it will have the same quality, that our American flag everything as Yes, like that is the standards of excellence at allegiance. And so short answer branching outside of American flags, while still staying true to our core product,

Hutson 42:21
and your values and our values.

Katie L. 42:23

Hutson 42:26
I would imagine we talked about the ease of the China operation and all those things. But also the downside, though, I’m sure the reverse is equally true with how, which is probably why you got to stock a lot, right on imagine takes a long time to build a flag, no question with the highest of quality and all of those things. So I imagine the number one issue for that is just because the value of qualities there, it just takes time, which is a double edged sword thing.

Katie L. 42:55
It is yes, labor just being so difficult. But it’s been wonderful. Like, from a fulfilling standpoint, as well as like, being able to, like fix that gap within, like, the growth that we need, is being able to invest within Allegiant. So like, we’ve now created training processes and programs for like, for a lot of those that have been on our fulfillment team for a while, and now teaching them and trade and now they’re able to join our sewing team. And then now some of them have become sewing leads and sewing managers and like really being able to give a lot of these people a skill that they didn’t have before. It has been by far like the coolest part of allegiance is like being able to hire within and build people up and see people grow,

Hutson 43:49
which I imagine is a welcomed, unseen, unforeseen byproduct of what you’ve done. I get to like the the initial reasons like I want to own everything, I want to know it, I want to I don’t want this to happen again. But the flip side is what’s actually happened is now you’ve been able to like see people grow and train them and some probably graduated to people on to different careers.

Katie L. 44:13
Definitely yes and real and graduating to certain careers. We’ve seen a little bit it’s amazing our retention and allegiance to like, I think just prioritizing, supporting American jobs like that means so much more to us than just like giving someone a job. It’s supporting an American job of, of really like creating the standard of what it is to work at an American company that has integrity. So it’s like really making people know that they are part of the family. Yeah,

Hutson 44:41
yeah. That’s so exciting. I’m excited to see where where it goes in the future, how things happen, how your kids grow and grow back vocabulary. It happened. I have a nine and 10 year old now so I there’s there’s a lot of words being said, well, sometimes really sassy.

Katie L. 44:56
I was gonna I know I don’t think it’s like, you know I don’t even know if I’m allowed to say this. We’re on camera. I’m poopy. It’s been a big word capillary recently and I’m like, I feel like it only goes worse from here.

Hutson 45:08
That’s the worst thing happens. Yeah. Great.

Katie L. 45:11
Aidan. Dan, I don’t know what you’re hearing. Yeah.

Hutson 45:14
Lots of things. Lots of emotions. The peaks and valleys are strong and quick. And you have a boy and a girl. Yeah. 10 year old boy now nine year old daughter. Oh, in December. That’s it. That’s wild.

Katie L. 45:26
That’s awesome. That is so great.

Hutson 45:29
That is we’re in a good really good zone. I was. I was talking with one of my daughters. She’s training for soccer. And this other kid was there talking to dad and he has a 13 year old daughter and he was talking about how how she’s now responding to things emotionally. And I was saying, Well, I my daughter at this point, if this is not what it looks like, I don’t know what’s about to happen. And as both genders I totally get it. But there’s definitely a difference. A 13 year old girl. I mean, I’m like, you know, yeah, it’s good. But it’s it’s gonna be a wild ride. Buckle

Katie L. 46:06

Hutson 46:07
Mm hmm, exactly.

Katie L. 46:09
I’ve heard that a little bit. I’ve two boys.

Hutson 46:10
Well, I’m sure you were super easy.

Katie L. 46:12
Oh, I was like, awesome. You know, I didn’t ever freaked my parents out. They like yeah, never rude. No, no, you saw my mom this morning. I did. Yeah.

Hutson 46:23
Well, thanks so much for coming in. Thank you so much, missy. Yeah, where things go.

Katie L. 46:28
Thank you. I’m it’s an honor to be invited. So I appreciate being here.

Episode 3:

Thriving Beyond Adversity: The Power of Mindset with James Newlands

James Newlands, Founder of Newlands Charters

Join us for an inspiring discussion with James Newlands as he shares his journey of overcoming a severe back injury and leveraging adversity to fuel personal growth. Discover how James surrounded himself with a supportive community that empowered him to pursue new aspirations across various areas of his life. Despite facing uncertainty, James found a renewed passion and purpose, transitioning into a fulfilling career. Drawing from his own experiences, James shares valuable insights into cultivating resilience, embracing change, and seizing the opportunities around you.

James Newlands runs and operates Newlands Charters. Follow him on Instagram @newlandscharters

Hutson 0:13
The joy in goal setting podcast is proud to be partnered with and brought to you by the ideal life. The ideal life offers a multimedia platform that is focused on cultivating a growth mindset. Here you’ll find a supportive community of coaches, valuable online resources and transformative courses aimed at helping you lead a more gratifying and joyful life. Ready to take the next step in your personal growth journey. Visit the ideal to explore their wealth and resources and join the vibrant growing community today. Welcome to joy and goal setting podcast where we empower individuals to discover their purpose, achieve their goals and experience a joyful life to encouraging conversations. I’m your host Hudson DODDS. Today, we’re sitting down with James Newlands. James is an entrepreneur, sales leader and fishing enthusiast. We discuss mentorship startups, and how to have meaningful friendships that challenge you to be the best version of yourself.

James, welcome to the show. I’m glad you’re here.

James 1:19
Thanks for having me. Coach DODDS.

Hutson 1:21
Yeah, man. You know, we were just talking a little bit before the show about how we know each other. It’s been because we go way back.

James 1:29
It hadn’t been like 10 years now. Yeah,

Hutson 1:32
it feels like it feels like forever. I mean, you know, I always talk about you, and in all the amazing things you’ve done, which we’ll dive into today, but I think about our relationship growing in so many different ways from like, a teaching into a mentorship and now to like friends and colleagues, which is like kind of a cool kind of cool transition.

James 1:50
It is really cool. I mean, when did we first start it was an Old Testament and New Testament class at Porter gout, which was, I was a, I was a crazy kid back then I would say it was a lot of fun. But then it kind of transitioned into you know, we share baseball, and I would always come talk to you. And at Porter, gout. I mean, I had a handful of people that I talked to in the administration, but I don’t know, I think we just connected. Yeah,

Hutson 2:15
I think we connected on the baseball desire. But also, I always tended to find people that I thought were pretty similar to me in high school, that maybe you needed a someone who was understanding, understanding of like, folks that will enjoy success, but maybe not in like the traditional sense. And you’ve always been someone who even pushed me and a lot of ways and successful and professionally and but you know, school is, school is not always for everyone in the same way. And I think that me and us were similar, and that way and your friends, and I understood that. And I think it was always fun to see you grow. You know, that was cool.

James 3:00
Yeah. Especially back in high school. I mean, we were crazy bunch. And you would always kind of you would give us the guiding light. And you know, I always had a place to come talk to you. And then when I went to college, you transitioned right into the alumni role. And then we hung out a little bit more, maybe we wouldn’t have talked again, I don’t know. But from there we had some some lunches and some coffee after college and it’s just kind of fostered into this cool relationship that I don’t. I don’t really have many other people from Porter guy that I talked to like that, at least on the administration side. But there was a handful. I mean, Coach Tate, I love Dr. Westman as well shout out to them. I don’t know if they’ll ever watch this. But love you guys played a big role in my growing up at Porter guard. So yeah,

Hutson 3:42
yeah, man. Well, and let’s let’s dive right in there actually, cuz I think it’s a great transition into school. So you love Porter gowd. And you went to South Carolina. And tell me about that experience? Because you had it you have, in some ways a, quote, traditional sense, like you did a lot of the things that most folks do in college, but also you, you did some unique things that were very outside the bounds of what I would say is normal, that were inspiring. So I’d love to kind of hear about your, your school experience. Yeah. So

James 4:09
I mean, at Porter gowd I didn’t really challenge myself too much. I mean, I came out with like a 3.7 GPA. And I was like, I remember I went into the University of South Carolina and my dad brought me upstairs and he was like, Alright, now you get to choose your major. And I was like, what do you what do you mean, I’m just, I’m business. Like, what does that mean? And he’s like, no, no, these are the seven majors that you can choose inside of business. And I was like, okay, cool. Finance. I love money. Let’s work with money. And until I got there, I didn’t really understand exactly what finance was. I always kind of just did what I thought was good in finance and money. I love money to work with money and numbers. So went in and did that. And from there, I think that’s where I really started to kind of grow not only from the academic side, but also from okay, I started to have interests. I was in college now. I was 18 years old. I was outside of the house. My parents, you know, they were straight because I was crazy in college and high school like I just kind of did what I wanted. And then from there I tried. You know, I love the passion for baseball. So I went to club baseball and try that out. I always thought returnees were kind of cool. So I tried the fraternity, school. Obviously, I stayed on my academics, but I always kind of kept open to the fact that I was interested in a lot of different things. And I gelled with a lot of different people. And I never liked just kind of pigeonhole myself into one thing. Just because it it just doesn’t seem fun to me. I’d rather pick a few people from every single thing that I do that I love hanging out with them and also grow with them. So yeah, I think college was a great place for me to just kind of one grow up and to find some of the things that I was really interested in. Yeah, try everything.

Hutson 5:53
When you and I would say, what’s what’s unique about? I think your circumstances is not just that you tried then a lot of folks try things. Yeah. But they don’t finish. They don’t follow through. And you follow through with baseball. And you follow through with academics, you follow through with attorney and the there’s also a piece of I mentioned, you started a chartering business.

James 6:12
I did, I did start a chartering business. So that was pretty interesting, because COVID hadn’t happened yet. And I always had a love for going on the boat, and hanging out with friends on the boat and just kind of an affinity for the water. And I was like, Okay, I’m a sophomore. Now in college, I can either become a captain when I’m six years old, and do that, like everybody’s passion. Or I have this period of my life where I don’t have work, and I don’t have any responsibilities, really. So I was like, Screw it. Basically, I’m going to try and get my captain’s license got my captain’s license, right before my 20th birthday. And then I called my friend up. His name’s Matt Haggerty. And we had talked and I said, Listen, man, I need a, I need a first mate for this charter. I’m about to run to try and run, I have no idea what I’m going to call it and I have no idea what I’m doing yet. And he was like, I’m in all in. So shout out to him as well shout out, Matt, that was amazing. He’s a great person to have on board with me. But from there, we just sat down and literally came up with everything. I mean, we started the business, we did merchandising, we did marketing, we did all this, and it was in a position or in a transition into COVID. So it was actually kind of a blessing, because school ended in like April. And then we could just solely focus on that. And everybody was actually trying to get out of the house here in Charleston. So we would mark it to, you know, our networks that we had here and just kind of spread the word. And I mean, I think we ran over 30 plus charters that year, we call it new ones charters, we couldn’t come up with a catchy name. So we just use my last times easy is better. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, that wasn’t just running a charter really, at that age. It was I mean, I had to relearn the business. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you learn the business, but you also have the responsibility of people’s lives. So we one had to give them a good time. But two, I had to manage, you know, having a first mate and also manage people that maybe if you didn’t catch the fish that they wanted, you know,

Hutson 8:14
given the the experience that provides the value what they’re paying. Yeah, yeah,

James 8:18
I mean, some people had unrealistic expectations. And maybe I didn’t set that up. At first. I wasn’t the best fisherman in the world. I’ll say it myself, but time on the water helped me get better. But also time on the water taught me, okay, this is how I deal with people. This is what I do on the business and what I need to set up what’s going well, what’s not going well. But just communicating with people, and somebody that really stuck out to me was we’d gotten off the water and we caught like four or five fish. It was like one red fish, and three sharks. And I told the person like okay, yeah, this was awesome, blah, blah, we were looking to get paid. And he’s like, I’m not going to pay you. And I was like, what, what? What do you mean, you’re not going to pay me like, we just did all this? And he’s like, Yeah, we’re not going to do that. Like, we didn’t catch what we wanted to catch. And I was like, Okay, so here we go. Anyway, obviously, we kept professional, we talked it out. I told them, hey, this is our overhead. This is what we did. I called you the day before, these were the conditions I laid everything out for you, like we have to get paid. So we ended up actually coming to a conclusion, he calmed down a little bit, but we gave him a little bit of a discount for the next time that he came on. And they ended up being one of our best customers after that. So it was kind of a cool experience

Hutson 9:28
with them told me through that. I mean, you’re how old were you at that point?

James 9:30
When we started running charters, I had just turned 20 years old.

Hutson 9:36
So you’re 20 years old? 21 Whatever. Yeah. And I’m assuming this gentleman was older than you. They were a little bit older than us not too much not crazy. And they’re not wanting to pay you I’m sure they’re not the nicest at this point in time. You gotta have two options right? You either like tuck tail and say okay, fine. Like what am I gonna do with this? Well, I got three options or you get angry when just not gonna get the result. Yeah, or you, you handle it in a way that is professional and you end up, they end up becoming some of your best business. Yeah, what, um How do you think that you were able to in that moment and those moments, choose the right option? Choose an option that wasn’t frustration? Or like, where does that come from? I mean, you weren’t not 40. And I had all this practice and failure.

James 10:28
I think that honestly comes from and I don’t talk about it much, but is a back injury that I have. So I I’ve got two bulging discs in my lower half, my two lowest disc on my back. But that was a real struggle for me. And that took a lot of patience for a lot of time after when I was 20. But I had this transition in my head, I was kind of a hothead in high school, I still was in college a little bit. But when it came to business, I was like, okay, obviously, we’ve got a name, my name on this company, we’ve got my friends, reputation, Charlson is pretty small, like, there’s got to be a different way to handle this, there’s just got to be a different way I have to think outside the box. And actually one of my friends, you know, William Davis, William Davis, he was also in the same high school was me and we were roommates in college. But he had a different way of looking at things that I always tried to mimic where he never really let people get to him. He never has, he just always had like this kind of cool, calm and collected demeanor that I tried to follow. Like I was a hothead. Somebody said something to me. All right, let’s, let’s go me and you, whatever. And that probably was just a representation of my own kind of self conscious. Whatever was going on in my head, I was just not competent in myself. So really, I tried to operate what how he would have operated, just relaxed and calm and collected and just take a step back and take a breath instead of just going straight into. They’re challenging me right now. They’re not challenging me. They’re challenging what happened? And they’re upset with

Hutson 12:03
their expectations. And it’s not a personal thing. Yeah, yeah. So I think so often. Learning to be the best version of ourselves is oftentimes just like witnessing other people and learning from who they are and how they manage things. Yeah. And it sounds like that. That’s one of those moments where you can like, look back and see how it shaped you as both hardship. Yeah, with your back and also like learning from, even though I mean, he’s probably not your mentor, but I probably look each other as like mentors in a lot of ways. Oh, yeah. Really? Do you challenge each other? Yeah. I think those relationships and you’re someone that has always valued community and relationships. And you see that through FEMA called a buddy, and they’re helping you with a charter and utilizing your networks to grow and have a successful Charter Business at 2021 years old. And so you kind of run that through you graduate from South Carolina. Yeah. No, what now? What do you do?

James 13:05
So I’ll actually bring it back a little bit to being at South Carolina, probably our junior year. My back injury was in full force, so I couldn’t get out of bed really, for 1314 hours a day. I couldn’t do what I enjoyed. I play club baseball, like it was killing me to go play baseball, it would take me out, I’d have to take a nap for like three hours afterwards, I would be on the floor crying to my mom saying like, I just can’t get off the I can’t get off the ground. And both my parents are doctors. So obviously they’re trying to figure it out. They’re trying to work through the list. I’m getting all these tests done, and nobody could figure it out. Until I got this MRI and they’re like, Okay, this is what’s wrong with you. So that really broke me down to the core. And I say it always taught it started with chocolate milk. And William William will laugh at this when he listened to all my roommates will call William and Matt but it started with chocolate milk. I mean, I was screwing around. I was drinking hard. Like I was in a fraternity. I was in the club baseball. But I was drinking hard. I was you know, smoking cigarettes, smoking cigarettes when I was in college. And I never smoked cigarettes like what am I doing? That was like rock bottom. I remember I’d smoked a cigarette in my in my kind of apartment. And I was like, What am I doing? Like, this is bad. How do I get here? How did I How did I start smoking? And it’s like not horrible. But I’m like I’m smoking a cigarette. How you have been? It’s pretty low. Yeah, yeah. So from there, I was like, Okay, I’m done with this. And I told you, I’m like, I’m dropping the fraternity. I’m doing this I’m doing that I’m making these changes. And the first thing I started doing was I would clean the kitchen at night because we were kind of a little bit messy. We clean the kitchen at night and my reward would be a chocolate milk because my dad always had chocolate milk at night and I was like, okay, every, every time I do this goal, I’m gonna reward myself with little chocolate milk. And then from there, it was just small things that I would add on small little discipline, things that I would add on and then it translates started transitioning into work because I came home. It was I think it was my junior year. Yeah, it was my junior year for Christmas. And my parents said, Okay, what are you gonna do? After college? I’m like, Oh crap, I don’t know. I don’t know what I’m going to do after college. So my dad, he had worked for a company called vendor Mae. And he had a bunch of they split off the owners of that after it sold. They were vendor credentialing for hospital systems, but they split off and they all did their own things in Atlanta and started different companies. Patient cosier? No, they did all sorts of different stuff, top of mind. So he’s like, go go talk to these people. And I got lucky with that. And I at first I said, Now, I want to do this myself. And I tried doing it myself for a while, and I was like, I’ll just go talk to him. So I drove up to Atlanta, talk to Bert Blitch, Andy mine and Bill Hayes, these are the three owners of these three companies, and they were all very successful, they had exited from betterment, and they had all started these companies, which two out of three have exited again now. And they taught me that was the baseline where it was just a different model of thinking, it was not, hey, this is you go in and you can work at, you know, fortune 500 company and work your way up. And they said that there was benefits in that, but I just absorbed information from them. And I sat down, I took them to coffee, and I absorbed as much information as I possibly could and I keep up with them still. And from there, I I started kind of applying to jobs and interviewing for jobs, and I almost made it a game. So by the time I was done with college, I had seven jobs lined up, seven jobs lined up, and probably five of them, I just used as interview practice. And then it came down to Boeing and Cyrano video, which is the company I worked for now. And I went to the owner of Cyrano video, and I was like, listen, I took this job with Boeing. I’m not going to be able to make it like I, I’m going to take this job with Boeing that’s kind of more set in stone, because they’re still they were still at the startup stage. Established, right? Yeah. And he’s like, basically said, screw that. Like, why would you do that this is you will operate this way. And he had known me since I was younger. So he’s like, this is I will put you in this role. Go talk to your boss, Mitchell, or your colleague, Mitchell. And I was like, okay. So I went and talked with Mitchell, who’s who is my boss, but at Cyrano video. And from there, I was like, Okay, I’m on. Like, I love the fact that they gave me autonomy, as a startup company to go and build basically the next vertical that they’re going to do. And what that company what Cyrano video is, is, it’s a full solution of hardware, software and services to allow physicians and employees and staff to get on camera to create videos more affordably and effectively inside hospital systems. So our motto is, it should take two minutes to create a professional two minute video, and it should cost a fraction of time. So we take all the heavy lifting out of it, but my responsibility is the eye care industry. So at first I’d showed up, and it was just, I didn’t know what business Feldman was, was my first job. I was nervous. And they’re like, Okay, I asked my boss, Mike, what are what are we doing today? Right, like, where do we go from here? Do I have no idea? You tell me? I have no idea. So we were established in hospital systems. And then we moved into medical device companies and physician groups and management service organizations. And that’s been the whole that’s been the whole thing. Since I started. That’s been the whole Hey, what do we do? What what can what can we do? I have no idea. Try it. And we just kind of hashed that out. And I think it’s been a great thing for me, because I hate even going back to Port God, I hate being in the structured like, dispatch, you’ve got to you know,

Hutson 18:33
something that’s interesting to me is thinking. And I know, there’s a lot of folks that are similar to you in this. But maybe you haven’t quite reached their potential I think is you’re someone who is very disciplined, but also is likes to likes to be outside of structure. Yeah. And those seem to be not in parallel. But they work really well in certain environments, right? Yeah. And for your job, your kind of job, it allows you to thrive because you can be disciplined enough to build something. Yep. But you don’t need that the parameters are there. But then it’s go plant out the box. Yep. But if the box is already filled with stuff you’re gonna see inside the lines, yeah, it’s gonna kill your creativity, even though you like being disciplined.

James 19:22
More than creativity, I think kills might drive. Yeah. Your excitement, joy. Yeah, your passion do get very passionate about different things. And I mean, that’s, it goes beyond the job. Like, I mean, I want to do everything that I possibly can. We’ve talked about this, especially talking about the ideal life and just, you know, we had built that we had gone through the framework that you guys had and really laid out exactly what I want to do and how to do it. And that helped me because I had never really sat down and done that and we had talked about that and I’m like Coach doubt I need to build this conference. There’s a piece missing. I don’t know what it is.

Hutson 19:56
Yeah, well, I want to let’s let’s for a second if we can, if we can, yeah, can go back there. I mean, I remember you and I talking before I talked too much about what’s going on here. Yeah. And from the outside, if I told anyone about you like that kid has everything together, like you’ve worked even and mentioned, other startups you worked for, and other things have been successful with your own startup. You did. You’re on track with this cool company. You’re doing all this stuff. And it looks like you’re all put together. Yeah. And they were talking. You’re like, there’s something missing? Yeah. Which is like, I think, basically, anyone out here for the most part, not everyone, but the majority of us would be similar as like, what’s my purpose? Yeah, I know what I like. But what’s my purpose? Why am I here? What am I doing? There’s something missing. So maybe bring us back to like, maybe how you got there, how you began to verbalize that. And then if you can remember kind of like, not specifically the process we went through, but but how that was how that was helpful for you moving forward.

James 20:58
Well, I had started working. And I was working really, really hard. And I was like, Okay, this, this should be fulfilling here. Like, we’re coming to the first six months of working, been working hard, things are kind of happening. Why am I missing this other part? Why am I missing this other half. And I don’t know if it was just something that’s in me or something that everybody has, but it was just a feeling of, okay, I made it through this, I will kind of give this to my back injuries. I made it through this really, really difficult time that I’m still working on every single day to kind of just relax and be normal to even just sit in this chair is it was hard. Two years ago, it was almost impossible. I couldn’t sit through a class in college, I had to lay down and listen to them. So when I got through that I was like, Okay, I always wanted mental toughness. I always looked up to people, I thought you had it. I thought a lot of other people and mentors in my life had had mental toughness. And I was like, how do you get that? How do you get that? I don’t know if it was just fate for the back end tree. But I mean, I’m not gonna say I don’t want it to happen to me or wish it didn’t happen to me. But it’s taught me a lot of things. And that’s where, from that moment on where I was able to still lift and keep myself in line and disciplined. I was like, okay, when I feel good, why don’t I just take it to the next level? How far can I go. And a quote that I live by is, I mean, like him or not, Conor McGregor was saying that he was curiously fascinated. He’s just curiously fascinated about everything. I’m fascinated about how far I can take myself physically, mentally, emotionally, with my friends, family, girlfriend, all of that. I mean, I think that I had a really, really good friend group to like, we’re very open and vulnerable, that not many people our age or guys really may not have. So we talked about these things a lot. And even this year, in 2120 23, and we all sat down, and we talked about our goals. For what what did we do well, in 2023? And what are we doing in 2024, to do to go above and beyond. And this had to do with everything that we had talked about? mental emotional, all that we talked about it and put it down on paper. So I would say maybe I got the ball started a little bit. Yeah. But I think I got the ball started because of my situation with my neck. Yeah. So. And another thing is, I mean, coming from poor gout. And, you know, I was really fortunate to have all the resources I ever wanted. And I don’t think I ever took advantage of it really until I got till I had the back injury. And I was like, Okay, it’s kind of a fresh start. I think that’s, that’s a big part of it, too.

Hutson 23:34
Yeah. You mentioned friends and the closeness that you’ll have together. And I would second that, I think you’ll have a very unique relationship with each other. Yeah. And I think that there’s a lot of guys that are listening that especially the older you get, the more difficult it is to have close friends and close guy friends that you feel like you can talk on a consistent basis, whatever that means, monthly or weekly, or daily, whatever it is, yeah. And about real things, things that matter, not just, quote, unquote, like passion, things like sports or things, whatever. But like real things, the personal things that really matter. How do you think that y’all maintain that? And like, Why do you think that y’all y’all have like, Where’d that start from? I know it’s a long time ago. So you can you can you can blame or you can claim it because you’ve been together for so long. That might be true. Yeah. But just the I have a lot of friends that are friends with other friends groups that know each other and hang out together a lot. But they don’t talk about things that matter. So I don’t think that’s it. So maybe you can think about like, or help help help those with a how do I get that?

James 24:50
So when I was younger, like Ethan Johnson, one of my good best friends for the longest time since we were young. When I I went I was born and Charlson moved to Chester, South Carolina and came back to Charleston when I was 10 or 11 years old. So when I went and started at Portimao, it was just him and I, like he were family friends. Because my mom had met his mom at like a porter, gout intro or something. And he came to my house and I was like, Who is this kid? It was just getting my house. And we kind of butted heads a little bit at first, but then we became inseparable. We just gelled. It was the weirdest thing. In my friend group didn’t really grow much after that, of course, I had friends, like you’re talking about a group of people that we hung out with, but

Hutson 25:36
which is fine, by the way. That’s good. Yeah. But there’s a deepness that everyone I think desire, there

James 25:42
is an illusionist, there is a deepness, but we had that deepness, from a young age, we just, you most people have one person in their life for like, this is my absolute best friend, I love this person, like, hands down love this guy. And I personally didn’t have like the ability to have have as for lack of a better word, a relationship with a friend. It was either all in or all out, I trusted you all the way or I didn’t trust you all the way. And that’s just how I was built growing up. From there, it kind of like, I met William, same thing, we dive in on a different level. And we became a little bigger friend group. And then I went to college, and I met Matt. Same thing. And it was just kind of picking these people off year over year, without even noticing it. And we became really, really good friends. And then when we would all come together, they also share the same thought and they share the same. Really everything. We all kind of have the same thing. So it was like picking over Yeah, 1015 years. And

Hutson 26:44
you’ll I mean, some of you have very similar interests. Yeah, I know that some you’ll have very different interests vary. But the one interest that I think is is the important one, and correct me if I’m wrong. I may be overstating this, but the interest of a desire to grow personally. Yeah. Is one that all of you share. And I think that everyone would say, Well, of course, I grew up personally. But it’s a different thing. I want to grow personally, and I’m going to actively pursue to grow. Yeah. And I think we all have that in you push each other to grow. And I think and tell me, I mean, you chime in, but it seems like that’s been one of the fulcrums of why you can then ask other questions of each other or go deeper and other areas, because everyone knows is not personal kind of you go back to the building story. Like I wasn’t personally affronting. You it was his expectations. And so the same thing is it’s not a personal question, if I, you know, like when I would challenge you with things. Yeah, it wasn’t a personal front. It was because I wanted you to grow. And you knew that I had the best interest at heart. Yeah.

James 27:51
I think that’s kind of a hard. That’s kind of a hard thing. Because a lot of people, especially when you have a friend group, they want to hear what they want to hear, like a friend comes to you. You’re like, oh, everything’s gonna be okay. Yeah, if you just are alright. But I started to challenge that. And they would challenge it as well, we just fostered a relationship where it was kind of cool, because everybody had a different, they have a different way of operating, there may be more quiet, more open, more vulnerable, whatever it is, but we all would challenge each other on whatever was happening. So you had something with your girlfriend, right? It wasn’t off the table, we’re going to talk about it. And that loyalty and honesty was something that I had to have for us to be good friends. And they also had to have it fully reference. Yes. So just being open and vulnerable, and realizing that it’s not an attack at you. And it was hard for me as well. You know, when somebody says something, and you’re like, Well, why do they think that like, Yeah, screw them, basically, you gotta get away from that. You gotta just have open conversations. And the more and more you do it, it feels kind of awkward at first, I mean, but eventually, it’s just not. It’s just not you guys are having real conversations. You’re not just talking about sports, you’re not just talking about this or that. So it’s like a muscle, you have to work. Yeah. And you can’t judge anybody really, for how they’re feeling or what they’re feeling because everybody, all my friends come from different backgrounds. So yeah, that’s really all we do. Well,

Hutson 29:13
and, you know, speaking on the framework we talked about, I mean, you know, this there’s a difference, like, between we use composite practice and deliberate practice. And the difference is, is as you’re pursuing the life role or your goals, comfortable practice is like kind of you doing on your own for the most part and deliberate is it moves there when you have a coach that helps you. And in a lot of ways your friends serve as coaches to each other, in that the framework helps you pursue your purpose and helps you pursue the best version of yourself. Yeah. And your friends, is what I’m hearing. They’re they’re interested in you pursuing the best version of yourself and they’re coaching along that way. And so you see them as like a form of sports and allergy. And as we say, life coaching, but just coaching you, and not a personal way, but as I care for you way, which is really unique, and that’s truly unique. And I think there, you know, the statistics are out consistently on how America is becoming more lonely and particularly men. And this loneliness is it’s real. It’s absolutely real. And I think you said everyone has at least one best friend, I would even challenge that. I don’t know if that’s true. I wish that were true. And I think people might say, This is my, quote, best friend. But are they having real conversation consistently? And the answer is no. Yeah, they people are seeking that. I think they’re seeking that wholeheartedly. And and I think when you know what you want, and you know who you are, it’s easier to be open and vulnerable. You don’t know who you are and what you want. It’s easier to fear that, that you will be judged, or that you are, I don’t know, like less like you don’t add up. Yeah. Because when you come across someone who doesn’t know what they want, it’s intimidating. And so like us talking through kind of like that, what I something’s missing, what’s that there’s that piece of something that’s not there. Like, there’s, there’s joy, and there’s peace and knowing who you want to be. Now, of course, we’re not there, and we’ll never get there. And there’s this ideal version of who we want to be that we’re all working towards. But as we have people around us, that community aspect, it’s important, it’s crucial to that to our, to our join or happiness. If you want to discover how the ideal lives founder Mark Condon quit smoking, shed 80 pounds, established a thriving logistics company, and embrace the challenges of becoming an Ironman triathlete, all things the framework we referenced in today’s episode, order your copy of his inspiring book, the ideal life today, with any website or any major retailer, begin your journey towards a fulfilling life filled with purpose and achievement. You

James 31:57
talk about community nowadays, and I mean, with we grew up in the age right now. Well, we were kind of the first to really test out the social media. I know everybody talks about it was Instagram and this and that’s, that’s a false community in my head, because I know I’ve felt the pressure of it. And I personally got off of my Instagram, I don’t get on it. I don’t check it. I don’t really look at it, I’ve got another thing that I do with call Marsh hammock. But that’s just kind of exploring our Chronicles inside of our friend group on the water. But I think getting off of Instagram was one of the best things for me personally, because like I said, I’m I have a small friend group, but I have a very, very, very strong friend group. And these are the only guys I care about. I have acquaintances. Sure, I’ll help you. Yeah, I love you guys, too. But at the end of the day, when I need to call somebody, this is what I always think of if I’m in trouble, and I need to call somebody, who am I going to call? And it’s those five guys, or six guys that I have. So I just keep I worry about them. We all don’t have that much time anyway after work, especially after college. So why would I put any more time towards anybody else other than the people that really care about me, that’s my friends, my family, my girlfriend, I don’t care about anything else. And really, I listened to a podcast where guy it was a billionaire. And he said, when he was growing up at first, like he wanted, everybody liked him. And then when he got a little bit older, he realized, you know, he’s like, I don’t care if anybody likes me. He’s like, he didn’t really care what people thought. And when he got even older when he was in the 70s. He said, Well, at the end of the day, nobody really cared. Nobody cared. I didn’t care. Nobody cared. Everybody cared about themselves. Yeah. And I mean, that’s pretty powerful. To me, why would I put so much effort and extend myself to so many people, when I only have limited amount of time? And what is it I think there’s like 180 people that you can really keep track of, you’ve got 1000 2000 people on Instagram, how you can’t can trap it can’t keep track of them, and you’re constantly combating 50 But yeah, exactly. 150. Right. Right.

Hutson 34:02
No and into into your point, focusing on the relationships that that matter, you know, and caring about those folks. And like you said, it doesn’t mean that we’re selfish. Does it mean that we’re not kind and helpful, and we want to help see other people that we don’t interact with consistently do well, because of course we do. There’s joy to be found there. But taking care of yourself allows you to take care of other people. Yeah. And that’s not overextending yourself, obviously. Well, you talked a lot about perseverance, and discipline. Where do you think comes from?

James 34:38
I mean, in high school, I never I didn’t really have it than that perseverance or discipline. I had the opportunity to go play some college ball. I had a couple offers didn’t pursue those ones because they were smaller d3, but I never really actually pushed myself to do anything at that age. But I still, I didn’t exceed but I still was above average in a way On the field, in the classroom, I wasn’t horrible. I just never pushed myself. And then when I after I’d had the injury, and I had started to see some success, just in the business side of things, because I had run the charter, and I just did it without even thinking about it. I just thought charter would be cool. I’m gonna run this, but I had so many things after that. And I always watch things where people are 30 or 40 years old, and they’re like, this is what I regret, regret, this is what I wish I did. And I hate the feeling of regret. So my motto is, you know, the pain from discipline is a lot less worse than the pain from regret. And that’s kind of what I’ve lived by since then. i It’s not like you can just turn it on either. It’s very, very difficult, like you said, from an outside sense. Yeah, things may all be put together. It’s not. It took hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of steps, it’s gonna take 1000s and 1000s. Beyond that, like you said, you’re never going to reach the goal that you want, really. So I just think adding these little things in and adding these little things in and then also being curious at how far can I take it? Why not? I remember I talked with some friends from high school. And I said, Yeah, I want to make 30 to $50 million. That’s what I want to do, why? Why not? And they kind of, you know, laughed at me a little bit. And I was like, Okay, we’ll see. Why not? First of all, for me to you, why not? Why are you limiting yourself at 20 to 23 years old, if that’s my goal, fine. If you’ve gotten the passion for it, I would believe somebody the same way, I would hope for them to do the same thing. And some people say it’s not a healthy way of doing it. But I use the doubt from people, I almost seek it sometimes because I do put out some crazy things. And there’s no better feeling of the meat for me than saying I’m going to do something and then going out and doing Yeah. And eventually people started to quiet down a little bit. But then you go to a crazier goal and a crazier goal and a crazy goal. And that’s how I’ve just operated since then.

Hutson 37:05
And it was rewarding and achieving the goal, right. I mean, there’s no science behind that. We know that with the chemicals that are released. And I think we talked about a lot. And I think that was the idea of the missing piece to a degree is 30 $50 million. Awesome. So that what Yeah, right. Like, that’s just the goal. And you reach in like, well, well, now what right? But like there’s got to be that when that when you reach out if you do, but when you reach that, that’s only helping you become the version of yourself that you want to be x way. And we talked all about that. But, you know, it’s I think it’s those crazy goals. We call them dream goals. And they’re important. They’re what keeps us aligned with the version we want to be as we wake up each day. So why am I doing this? Okay? It’s because when I’m 85, I want to have a family compound, we all get together and we celebrate vacations together and these amazing places. That’s why exactly I’m the authority for doing hours. Exact right? Not just so I can have it. But it’s got to align with the person I want to be, which is a family, whatever it is, right? It’s similar to we talked about, but that’s it. Yeah,

James 38:11
I mean, I mean, my, the people around me from the outside, sure people are like, Oh, you just want 30 or $50 million, whatever. That’s the goal that I have. But it’s really not money. Like you said, it is building a foundation where everybody around me has the opportunities that they want. I have all the opportunities that I want. And I can pursue because growing up, I had the opportunity to pursue anything I wanted, and didn’t have the constraint very thankfully, of money. And I have a lot of friends and I have a lot of people in my life that maybe were constrained by that and could have done things that if it weren’t for money they would have been able to write or weren’t for money. So it goes a lot deeper than that. It goes a lot deeper that and you know, you say perseverance and discipline. I think another thing is a lot of people will use this doubt, as a means to take it to the next level, kind of and that’s exactly what I do. I don’t think everybody feels that way. But I take it personally I always have. And it almost kind of gets me a little riled up and a little angry, but I had heard a competitive nature. Yeah, it is a competitive nature. And it seems like since it can’t play sports, right? This is how I compete now. So when I take it personally, I think of it as like water behind the dam. You know, you can get angry and the water can overflow beyond the dam and basically destroy the village or you can run that anger that water through the turbine and power it. So I run all that anger through the turbine. It’s not like I’m sitting there like oh my god, but somebody doubts me. I remember I had a friend like it wasn’t too serious, but he it was like it was going into 2023 and I had you know I was coaching for middle school baseball team for Moultrie. I had been doing my MBA I had work and I was upgrading to my master captain’s license all In the same like, four month period at to start. He’s like, Dude, I don’t know if you’re gonna be able to do this. You know, that’s a lot of work you sure about that? He wasn’t really getting on my case when he was saying like you show up. Yeah. And I just printed out a picture of him and I kind of made up a quote. Yeah, print out because I put it on my desk and I use that every single day for four months. And yeah, it was kind of foolish, but

Hutson 40:22
lots of fun. Yeah, yeah. That’s a trip so you did you finish your masters in

James 40:29
so I finished my master. I finished my master upgraded license, we ran the Moultrie Middle School baseball team, I was the head coach. We were supposed to be the worst team on Mount Pleasant. We were the best team on Mount Pleasant. We were 11 and three. And then yeah, continue to work on my MBA, which I’ll done, we’ll be done with this year, and then work. I mean, just grinding on that. So it’s exciting. It is exciting. It was exciting. And it was fun to push myself. That’s another thing always trying to push myself further than what I think I’m capable of. Yeah, I know when I feel uncomfortable. Like it’s in a good space.

Hutson 41:03
It’s in a good spot. Yeah. And that’s, you know, we talk a lot about how the flow state zone is like is getting just outside your comfort zone not too far for too long because burnout I remember getting out and coming back in right slowly like just outside and then coming back and that’s exactly right. Like if you’re not outside, you’re gonna get bored. Yeah, you’re not gonna grow the only way to grow is to get outside of the comfort zone just enough and then come back and back and forth. Well, man, it’s been so fun catching up, and you know everything and and thanks for coming in. Yes, sir.

Episode 2:

Finding Strength in Vulnerability: A Journey of Healing with Adrianne Betz

Adrianne Betz, Founder of Little Adi + Co

Join us as we dive into a heartfelt conversation with Adrianne Betz. Hear how she navigated through launching a new career, and then pivoting during the pandemic. Adrianne sheds light on the power of self-compassion, mindfulness, and finding community support where she least expected it. Discover the profound benefits of trusting your instincts, trying new opportunities, and leaning into what is right in front of you.

Adrianne Betz is an influencer and the founder of Little Adi + Co. Follow her on Instagram @little_adi_co

Hutson 0:13
The joy in goal setting podcast is proud to be partnered with and brought to you by the ideal life. The ideal life offers a multimedia platform that is focused on cultivating a growth mindset. Here you’ll find a supportive community of coaches, valuable online resources and transformative courses aimed at helping you lead a more gratifying and joyful life. Ready to take the next step and your personal growth journey. Visit the ideal to explore their wealth and resources and join the vibrant growing community today. Welcome to the joy in goal setting podcast where we empower individuals to discover their purpose, achieve their goals and experience a joyful life through encouraging conversations. I’m your host Hudson DODDS. Today, we’re sitting down with Adrian Betts a fashion designer, business owner and a mother of four. We discussed turning closed doors into opportunities, how to combat burnout, and finding joy outside of work.

Adrian, welcome to the show. I’m so glad you’re here.

Adrianne 1:18
Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Hutson 1:19
Yeah. Well, welcome to our new space.

Adrianne 1:22
Beautiful. I love the new smell. Yeah, new house smell. Yeah,

Hutson 1:26
it is right. It’s like they used to put in like cabs. You know? Yeah. Beach smell or? Yeah. Well, yeah, it’s a new year, at the time of recording. I’m curious to hear from you. Either both of these questions, or one of the other, but what’s one thing you’re really excited about in 2024? Or one thing that is like kind of making you nervous about 2024? Um,

Adrianne 1:50
one thing I’m excited about is possibility. I feel like it’s gonna be a big year. But there’s a big question mark, what is that going to look like? But I consider myself a pretty intuitive person. And this kind of happened to me back in 2019. And that ended up being a great year. So feel like empty book.

Hutson 2:10
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So possibilities. Are there possible is on the horizon, you’re thinking about or you just feel like it’s gonna happen.

Adrianne 2:18
I’m, I’m leaving it open to whatever comes. But yeah, I think it’s gonna be great.

Hutson 2:25
That’s awesome. Yeah. And so you’re from Cape May, New Jersey. I am a place I here is a great visit not to grow up in.

Adrianne 2:34
Well, I mean, I had like the typical childhood, but it was very small town. It was great to grow up near the beach. But unfortunately, being New Jersey that is only functional. And like three months out of the year, and the rest of the year. It’s just dead silence and cold and terrible weather. And, yeah, I mean, everybody knew your business. And I had some great friends, small crew friends. But yeah, I had bigger dreams. I think Kate May. So that’s what took me to New

Hutson 3:07
York. Awesome. Sorry. Yeah, beach person.

Adrianne 3:10
I am a beach person. So that was the only hard thing about living in the city was that I still had that pole and that hankerin for the beach. So that’s what I love about Charleston.

Hutson 3:21
After Kate Mae, did you go straight to New York?

Adrianne 3:24
I did. So the minute I turned 18, while I applied for schools in New York for college, and I got into fit. And I was like, um, go and see. Yeah, and went to New York, the minute you know, first semester fall, and came home that first Christmas, and it was just eye opening. And I was like, Mom, I’m not coming back. I’m sorry. And she’s like, that’s cool. No, but you need a job. Like, I’m not going to pay for your time. I’ll pay for you while you’re in school, you know, during your semesters. But other than that, like you want to do the summer you want to do the winter, you need to have a job. So I hit the streets, got myself a job and never looked back. And I was there for about almost 12 years.

Hutson 4:05
When was it always New York and

Adrianne 4:09
always New York? Like I did not think I was going to leave New York ever, ever. Like I that was my dream.

Hutson 4:16
When did you decide Kate may growing up that New York was wasn’t the spot.

Adrianne 4:21
Um, I think the minute I got into wanting to do fashion, which was around like, 12 years old, I realized and coming from a family like my mom was a school teacher. My dad worked for the city. You know, that wasn’t kind of like in my realm. So I had to do my own research of like, what was a fashion designer? What did that look like? And I’ve just always been the kid no matter what that I like, set the bar very high, which can be a problem at times. But I went in an outline for myself on Google, like what does that look like and what’s the best of the best and so like, if I’m going to be in fashion I want bid go to the best schools and I wanted. And so New York City was like the hub of fashion, right Fashion Week and all the, you know, women in the streets with their bags and their heels and all that I wanted that I wanted. That was my dream. And from from a very early age,

Hutson 5:16
you mentioned that Cape May, in a lot of ways, is what I don’t want to say drove you away or drove you towards it. But it sounds like from early age, you fell in love with something that Cape May couldn’t offer you. Absolutely, yeah. And many cities can’t for that matter, but the desire for fashion. What is that? Did you see that in your family? What if it kept me wasn’t offering you I’m curious where that desire came from, um,

Adrianne 5:43
I was always into while I was always creative, I was always drawing, painting that type of stuff artist. But really, it was my grandmother, that I would say looking back now that probably introduced me to that. And I lost her when I was eight. And so I in a way, like part of my grief with I think was tapping into the relationship that I did get with her that little bit of time. And looking back, she exposed me to all of that, like she would bring me into her bedroom and show me stuff in her closet and things that my grandfather brought back from like Vietnam for her and her jewelry, and all of that and painting my nails. And, um, and then I you know, I don’t know, I just kind of always was a girly girl, I was always into what I was putting on my body and stuff like that, and never really loved what was out in the market for myself. So being, you know, the kid that drew and stuff, I will start making things for myself. And I would start drawing sketching ideas of clothing that I would want. And then kind of just let my imagination run wild with that. And probably by the time I was like 12 or 13 started like creating my own company in my head and what the name of that would be and creating my logo and all of that stuff. So

Hutson 7:05
what did your family How did your family respond to you wanting to go to New York? I know you said get a job but in like, leaving take me to a big city and then fashion. Yeah. How did they take that?

Adrianne 7:17
I think it definitely was out of their comfort zone for sure. And being the firstborn to they were like you’re going where I don’t know if we like can let that leash go that long. But they were pretty open for the most part, I think they were more scared of like, what does that mean? How are you going to take care of yourself? This seems like a career that maybe you won’t make a lot of money at first in and how can we raise you to be independent and provide for yourself and all that stuff? While so like chasing this dream that I think, honestly, I think they thought was a little like, out of the ordinary and yeah, kind of Yeah.

Hutson 8:01
So you landed in New York? Yeah, go to school. Start working. What was your first job in New York,

Adrianne 8:08
like very first job or like big girl job. Let’s do both very first job. While I was interning, I interned a lot. And a lot of them were unpaid. And I did a lot of every season I would do behind the scenes Fashion Week. So I would like dress the models and help wherever I was needed during the shows, and that was all unpaid. But my first paid I guess was a paid internship with a runway designer named David Rodriguez. And I would help him with pattern making and getting the fabric and all that running the streets. But I was so proud. He paid for my lunch. He gave me my MetroCard. And I was really hands on with seeing everything that goes into a show. And then beyond that, I would say I worked retail for a little bit and got to really see the customer side of their purchasing and consumer and all that stuff. So got to see a lot of what makes up really like the job itself.

Hutson 9:15
Yeah. Was there ever a moment in New York that tested you? You’re like, maybe this isn’t? Oh,

Adrianne 9:20
absolutely. What I wanted. Yeah, I had a moment I would say, my sophomore year, and it was the summer of my sophomore year. So like I said, like, I was not going home and my mom’s like, you need to find a job and I couldn’t find a job that summer. And it seemed like everywhere. I asked doors were just getting shut in my face left and right. Like I wasn’t good enough. I wasn’t good enough. I mean, I even went to like the TGI Fridays across the street and like tried to apply to be a hostess and they were like, No girl. So yeah, I had a lot of tears that summer of like, Am I doing the wrong thing? Is it time for me to go home and my like over Extending myself. And then that’s actually when I ended up with a retail job. But unfortunately, I had to commute to New Jersey for that. So it was like, wow. Like if I’m a real sign person, big city, yeah, nowhere in the city wanted to give me a chance. So my boyfriend at the time, no, my husband actually was living for his job in New Jersey, and we would commute to see each other anyway. So the one weekend when I was there seeing him I was like, I’m just walking into the local mall, and I’m gonna get the first job that they offer because I just need money at this point. And I did and it was for like, Gymboree, like a kid’s clothing brand, you know, working as like the like, you know, sales girl. And that’s what I did that summer. And it was, I mean, it was it. Like now that I see my story, like it definitely was working for me. But at the time, I was like, this, what am I doing, like so much? That I felt better than that. At the time. I was like, I have so much to offer, you know, and the fact that I’m just here working like a cash register. I just felt like I was made for more and but now looking back it definitely it was a teaching moment. Yeah, yeah.

Hutson 11:13
So you go into Jamboree, you do your thing you keep on going, when? When would you? When do you get your first big girl job, as you said following

Adrianne 11:20
summer, believe it or not like so like, yeah, full circle. And this blows my mind to this day, I went and being so close to senior year, I was just stuck on the fact that I needed a real internship that was going to pay me hourly, and that it was going to lead to something. And I was just applying for things left and right, left and right, left and right. This one kept popping up. And they were emailing back and forth. And I don’t even when I applied for it. I was like, I really don’t really want to work for this company. But I need a job. I’ve seen where I was the summer before I just I can’t Beggars can’t be choosers, you know, can’t be picky. So they actually, like got back to me. And they wanted me to come in for the interview. And I even remember walking to the interview, and I called my boyfriend now husband and I was like, I don’t want to go like I really don’t want to work for them. Like should I and he’s like would just go, just go. So I go anyway, long story short, that turns into a full time job before I even graduated. So I was an assistant design designer full time, my junior year, and carrying my full time credits in college. And so I worked for them for about five years. Before I left.

Hutson 12:36
It took a lot of chances. Yeah, a lot of tries to get to get there. Finally, yeah, what kept you going? I mean, I’m thinking about coming from a small town different than most people. Sounds like you had some support from family. But I don’t know if it sounds like was maybe full support to a degree, right? And you’re getting shut down continuously for a lot of people. They’d like maybe this isn’t, maybe someone’s telling me that this is not right. Maybe I should try something different. What kept you going on the same drain the same path? I’m

Adrianne 13:08
just really being in tune to myself and what was on my heart and knowing that? Well, I’m very driven. And when I’m faced with adversity, I want to prove people wrong, like so I think more than anything that probably was it was like, I’m not going to fail. Like I will do everything in my power not to fail. And I really had passion for what I was doing. So that’s what kept me and knowing that it was right for me because I loved it. But I didn’t understand why I wasn’t being met, you know, with the same chance, I guess, or whatever. You know,

Hutson 13:47
when you mentioned that you weren’t gonna fail, although you were failing a lot. Yeah,

Adrianne 13:52
I mean, no. So

Hutson 13:53
I want to I want to talk about that, though. We talk a lot about failure. We talk a lot about, you know, growth mindset and growing from failure. I’m curious in that timeframe, you can think back on it. Did the How did those failures, either a prepare you for much further down the road? Or how do they how did you look at those failures and learn from them to finally get the job or move forward? Well,

Adrianne 14:14
I think they truly humbled me, because if I wasn’t failing, I think I I definitely would have thought that more was for me. And when like just thinking back on that summer, if I wasn’t humbled into just making money just working like it’s not going to be the fashion job, you think it’s going to be you’re going to be working sales. I think if I didn’t have that I wouldn’t have been open to the next thing. And so that’s kind of when it comes to that other job. The full time job was, you know, I didn’t want to go I didn’t want to take it and I probably would have ignored the emails it had it had that failure of the summer. Yeah, so I wasn’t It made me more open. And then it’s kind of one of those things like don’t judge a book by its cover. And that was that job for me is I was judging it. But when I got into it, and I was around those people, I loved it. I didn’t want to leave, like, you know, and it actually propelled my career. Yeah, yeah.

Hutson 15:17
So how long have you New York for

Adrianne 15:21
New York as a whole? We live there for almost 12 years. Long time. Yes.

Hutson 15:26
What brought you out of New York,

Adrianne 15:28
an opportunity for my husband’s job. So that was kind of devastating, because it was an opportunity we couldn’t pass up. And I, like I said, with the other jobs, I was just excelling. I was getting promotion after promotion opportunity after opportunity. He jokes I was the sugar mama, like, I was doing well, and I was proud. And I felt like I was on the cusp of like, so much potential in my career, and but we both are, like Type A go getters. And this was something that he was being presented with. And we had to move and we had to move to Charleston. And oh my gosh, I went through like a midlife crisis with that it was absolutely devastating. But I remember I had a mentor. At my job at the time, good friend, I had actually worked with her with my at my first job. And she had brought me over to the next company that I was with the last one I was at before leaving New York. And I just remember going to her and crying on her shoulder and was like You won’t believe where we’re going. We’re going to Charleston. And she was like, grabbed me by the shoulders. And she’s like, either? No, this is wonderful. Like, first of all, have you ever been to Charleston? And I was like, No, embarrassingly enough, no, she was like, Oh, my God, you’re gonna love it there. But on top of that, like take this as an opportunity to truly find yourself like with his situation I financially didn’t have to work. So it was a moment of like, being able to truly find what I really wanted to do deep down inside. And so I looked at her like she was crazy at the time, like any what, find myself, I found myself. True. I mean, looking back to with the career in New York, it was rough. You know, I loved what I was doing. But it was a rat race. And long nights, and I had some health issues that were popping up just because of the stress levels I was under. And so I think there was a little voice when she said that, but also at the same time. I was like, I don’t know how I’m going to approach this because how do I tell my family back home that, you know, I had just gotten married at the time so it was like, Oh, here we go. Like because they were raising me to be this like independent girl they wanted me to be able to like I don’t need no man like all that stuff. And here I’m going to be like, Yeah, I got I just got married. But guess what, now we’re moving and like Charleston was never in their wheelhouse either. So you’re going where and how far away and we even this, you’re not even going to work. So now you’re just going to be come a housewife, you know, like type of thing. And so I also like the other side of me was like, how am I going to tell my family that this is what we’re going to do? And you know, they have looking back have been supportive, but they’re always apprehensive, which I think any family member probably is because they’re really concerned about your well being but yeah, so that led us to Charleston. And from there, I took some freelancing gigs, which is like how I ended up at Abercrombie and I got pregnant so I also was using this as like, Okay, I’m going to make our house like everything I couldn’t do in the city because I was working long hours. Like he was the one cooking dinner for us. I was coming home, I was just like spent and then I’d get up at six o’clock and go to work again. And it was just like this hamster wheel. And so I’m like, okay, Annie, maybe you’re right, like, I’ll be the one that like, makes dinner and I’ll like, step into my wifely role and whatever and then we’ll start a family. And I No sooner had my first son, and he was like six weeks old. And I was like, oh, no, this is not for me at all. This is not for me. I can’t sit still like I need to hit benchmarks for my own personal growth. And I tried blogging a little bit and like I’m like, how do people do this? Like how do you get yourself out there SEO like all that tech stuff that like I can’t figure out and I think I was like shopping one night for my son on and it was like when Instagram first started. So it was like, you know, everybody knows Etsy but people started bringing their brands over to Instagram I found my I’m like, oh yes, this is this stuff I want not the stuff that’s like in the stores right now with the baseballs and the construction logos and the dinosaurs. This is the stuff that I want for my son. So I was like buying it. And then one night when I was up with him, I’m sitting there and you know, feeding him and I’m like, wait a minute, like light bulb? What? Why am I giving them my money when like, I’m qualified, I’m very much qualified to do what they’re doing. Like they’re just moms that are, and I don’t know, their background, so I can’t speak to it. But

Hutson 20:33
what background which means that you write what

Adrianne 20:35
it looked like, to me, it’s like, well, heck, like I can do this. Like, why not just see what happens. And that’s kind of like how everything started. For me for the, for the business, I just, I sat with it for a few more days, the idea of it and kind of figured out in my head, okay, if I’m going to do this, what’s it going to cost? Kind of a rough draft of a business plan. And one night after my husband came home from work, I’m like, Alright, look, this is what I have in mind. This is what I want to do. I’m not doing anything anyways. And when he’s napping, you know, I think I’m going to start working on this. What do you think? And I like gave him some rough sketches of like, a couple shirts and a couple pants for boys, little boys. And I was like, What do you think? And he was like, I think that’s great. Go ahead, how much is it gonna cost and I was like, I told him the number and I was like, but it’s my money from working freelancing. It’s my money, so like, won’t cut into our bottom line or anything. And if I lose it, I lose it like, you know, and yeah, the rest is history. Honestly,

Hutson 21:39
if you want to discover how the audio lives founder, Mark Condon quit smoking, shed 80 pounds, established a thriving logistics company, and embrace the challenges of becoming an Ironman triathlete. All thanks to the framework we referenced in today’s episode, order your copy of his inspiring book, the ideal life today, within a website, or any major retailer, begin your journey towards a fulfilling life filled with purpose and achievement. One of the backs in New York, because it’s interesting to me how it’s everything you ever wanted. And in some ways, it was proving all the people wrong, which was maybe not the main reason, but definitely a driving factor to applying and moving forward all the things. And it what it sounds like, as amazing as it was, and it definitely set you up for exactly where you ended up in life and all those things. It wasn’t providing you the joy, you’re maybe expecting or especially looking back on it, it

Adrianne 22:36
really wasn’t looking back, it was not filling my cup at all, like I was what was filling my cup was I was successful. And I was achieving things on paper and hitting all the marks. But when I went home at night and lay my head down, there was something missing. And is this it? And I’m going to do I mean, I really had a moment where I was like, Is this what I’m going to do for the rest of my life type of thing. And so in a way, it was like a blessing in disguise that we had this opportunity to move down here because it forced me out of that. Like it literally talked me out of the hamster wheel where I probably would have just kept going. And who knows, like I said, I had some health issues that were coming up. And it’s like, Where would that have? I was like 27 or eight when we left New York. And coming here. Clearly, this is a slower pace of life than New York City. So I had time to like, it all kind of came like a wave and compounded on me. And I’m like, wow, what the heck just happened. It just felt like a really fast life. And like I said, I moved there when I was 18. And here I am moving to Charleston at 20. So matter of 10 years. And I felt like I had lived like 20 or 30 because of how hard we were working. And it was never ending. And that’s the only thing about New York that I don’t think I was prepared for coming from such a small town as Kate May, is that it’s never enough. And you’re just and then finally something has to give whether it’s you or you know, the job or because that’s the other thing is I got out right before the industry kind of crashed, the economy crashed and what’s the first thing to go is like, you know, clothing like people aren’t. So layoffs were happening and stuff. So who knows what my the rest of my career would have looked like? I definitely probably think I would have been faced with some hard times. And then I’d rather the decision be that we had to move for an opportunity then it’d be we had to move out because we couldn’t do it anymore. You know? Yeah. Or even afford the city. So my

Hutson 24:42
son my wife went to school for early childhood education, and her dream was to run a preschool and she was able to she got that job and did it for two years and it was very similar story in that worked her tail off beginning and came home spent everything doing what she wanted to do or thought she wanted to do. And it wasn’t until realizing this, this isn’t filling my cup. It’s not allowing me to live the life and all the other things that I value all my life roles are getting wiped away, I’m only focusing on one. Yeah. And it’s killing me that she finally got out. And she’s doing something different, similar indication. But the point is, it makes me think about your story and how we have these seven life roles of work and wealth and health and faith and family and community and these things. And we tend, especially in America, we tend to focus on work, and work is where we put our value and our worth often. And even when you have all these successes, and it seems like everything’s great in reality. I don’t speak for you. But it sounds like maybe health wasn’t something you were really putting time and energy into and family or all these other things. Really, I

Adrianne 25:55
didn’t have time for anything else. Yeah, but work. And yeah, that’s the whole thing is I knew as much as I prioritized work, I knew that I also wanted a family and I wanted to travel and I wanted to be able to do these other things. And it was starting to get aid from getting married, you know, I think it automatically puts in mind, okay, the bigger picture of like, well, where are we going to go from here? We’re not just going to work for the rest of our lives and be like roommates, like we want to, we want to have kids and we want to do all these other things. And I started thinking to myself, you know, what? Do I want to raise kids in New York City? And what does that look like? And if we don’t raise them in New York City, then where do we move to what suburb that’s close enough for the commute. And then who’s actually raising my kids, I’m going to have the kids but then a nanny is going to raise my kids because I’m at work till 11 o’clock at night. And he’s putting my kids to bed and all of that stuff. So in a way, yeah. It everything happens for a reason, right? Yeah, it’s kind of crazy.

Hutson 27:04
It is. And I think, you know, the life rolls for us is such a big piece of the puzzle. We think about goals, and you set your goals and you reach your goals. I mean, you’re you like you said, you’re driven from an early age, you knew exactly what you wanted. And you and you, you learn from all your failures, and you achieve those goals. But I think oftentimes as a culture and society and even parents in schools we don’t think about, but what are our goals for all these areas of our life, because it’s all who makes us human. And all of these areas, not just work, and not just family, and not just whatever, right? All of them make us who we are. And when we put focus and emphasis on one, that means we’re not going to leave like continued focus. We talked about putting focus for a quarter. But for continued year after your focus, it gets left behind and we feel empty inside. Right. Sounds like you found some balance in Charleston after you moved and decided to start launch the business. So let’s talk a little bit about that. Yeah, take me through the early stages and how that was and were you able to find more balance and what that looked like for you. Um,

Adrianne 28:15
so yeah, so it’s, like I said, it started with me running the idea through my husband, and then I hit the ground running pretty much and during every nap time, and even when he my son went to bed at night, I’d be in my office working and I started my Instagram and started putting stuff on there and people started purchasing. And so then I built my website and wanted to veer away from it. So kind of it was left to my own devices to market myself. And one thing led to another and to be completely honest with you, when I tell my story, the first year is a blur because it snowballed so quickly, that I think I was in survival mode to a certain extent. And I started my business in December of 2013, filed and made it a real LLC by January 2014. And by March or April, it was completely out of control. Like I was doing a lot of the manufacturing myself, I was sewing everything doing all the pattern work and all of that because I didn’t think it would really, I don’t know get off the ground that quickly. And by April, I found myself behind a sewing machine, bawling my eyes out crying because my husband would be taking he’s like, Well, what are we going to do this weekend? I’m like, Well, I have 24 outstanding orders. And the lead time on my orders were like two weeks and at this rate that I’m going it’s more like six or eight weeks and who the heck is buying anything for their child, the outside, they’re out, they’ve outgrown it. So he was really, really supportive in the fact that like, he was like, Okay, I’m gonna, I’m going to take eight, and he was like only six months old at the time, but he was like, I’m going to take it into the aquarium and like, whatever. And I remember that afternoon, I was bawling. And I was like, I’m missing out on this. Right, exactly. Exactly, exactly. Like, what am I doing? What am I doing? And what is it worth, I’m missing time with my son. Again, my firstborn, like, this is everything I’ve wanted. Something’s gotta give. So me being me, went into my rolodex. And like, I know people, like I let start contacting people. So I started shooting out emails. Because in my career previously, in New York, I did a lot of traveling. So I knew a lot of manufacturers and industry, people that did all of this. So I’m like, let’s just see if they’ll, like, help me out here. And again, I got a lot of doors closed in my face, because I couldn’t meet certain minimums because while my business was growing substantially, it still was meeting these 1000s of, you know, units that these people wanted in order to even you know, start cutting fabric for me. But I found somebody because I was persistent. And I found somebody out in LA. And I took him on and raised my price a little bit, my retail and in order to account for him and started finding balance that way. So that’s when I really realized that if I’m going to do this, I need to outsource work smarter, not harder, you know. And so from there, by the following year, I ended up with a publicist, I had celebrities, kids wearing my clothing. i The following year, I guess it was maybe a couple years after that. But I started blogging actually in 2015, at the recommendation of my publicists, because again, it was at the forefront of this, I don’t know what they call this movement of people starting their own, but this small business thing of social media, going hand in hand with that she was like, people want to make that connection with small business. They want to know the story they want to know. You know, they want that connection. So she encouraged me to start a blog, and I had found out that I was pregnant with my second son, Hudson. And they were like, We want to see your nursery. We want to see what baby products you’re purchasing for him and all of that stuff. And that’s what really built my

Hutson 32:34
blog that didn’t exist back then. I

Adrianne 32:35
didn’t know what I was doing. But it was I just wanted them to buy my kids clothing. Like I didn’t realize what I was doing. I just thought I was giving them a glimpse into

Hutson 32:46
us and then once ran on accident. Yes,

Adrianne 32:48
yes. And that’s what’s so bizarre when I do talk about the story is like, I don’t really understand how this all kind of happened to me, but we’re doing it, you know, but I had him and then the focus started shifting to how are you doing this? Like your brand didn’t miss a beat the clothing brand and Miss miss a beat? You’re still shipping on time, you’re still doing all this stuff? And it seems like it’s growing even more with media attention. But you have to under to at home. Girl, how are you doing? Like we need to know. And so I guess I just started I started doing blog posts on that stuff, that that type of stuff of how I was juggling it all because it kind of opened up a thing for other people to be like you can still pursue your dreams or pursue your passion projects while raising your kids at home that you don’t have to do an MLM. You know what I mean? Like you can you can whatever you put your heart to you can do it with your kids, and why not bring them along for the ride? Yeah, so yeah, that’s what we did. And we might, the brand kind of grew through word of mouth, again, celebrities, through my publicist, my celebrities were wearing the brand. So that brought a lot of like attention to the brand and to my Instagram account. And then I randomly one day, got an email from Joanna Gaines, his team to bring my brand to her silos. It was the first time they opened up the silos and they were doing like some sort of fair fall fair, I think, fall at the silos and they recognize and I was like, wait, what level? So like, I went to my point. I’m like, Did you do any? And she was like, No, I didn’t. That’s when I realized that like, things spread like wildfire. And so I ended up going there about four times and was then getting to see firsthand because it’s so hard to do it behind. You know the computer you’re not meeting your customer in real life. You’re just shipping things and People are saying what they say on on social media, but you’re not really getting to meet your customer and see who’s wearing your clothing. And that was like the first time that I got to, like, interact with, yeah, from across the country. They were coming in and they would come and they were like, you’d understand my young my oldest warrior stuff. And now my like, third, Warren’s wearing your stuff, and the quality, so great. And this and you were I was getting the feedback firsthand. And it just was like, mind blowing for me.

Hutson 35:27
And super rewarding. I’m imagining very different work. And that’s probably a big difference to degree, right.

Adrianne 35:32
And of course, like I said, having my two boys like I was facing a little bit of burnout too, because I’m like, gosh, you know, I sometimes I just want to be a mom. And when you’re your own business and your own your own boss, when does it stop and never stops? At least when you’re in the office and you go home, you can leave it at the door, or you tried to. But when you’re your own boss like it, you feel like every time every little moment is wasted? Well, I could be doing this. I could be doing that. Yes. So I was starting to feel a little bit of burnout. But I knew that I was lucky in the sense that I wasn’t doing what I was doing in New York. So like, I still am in control. I’m the one in control. But I had to, like have a come to Jesus moment for sure of like, it’s okay to throttle down sometimes. Yeah.

Hutson 36:18
Did you put guardrails up for yourself? Or how did? How’d you help yourself from continuing into burnout? It sounds like you were able to recognize it easier and better than when you were in New York, probably because you have kids, you can see burnout in real life. But how did you put up some guardrails? Did you and your husband Todd, have a mentor or a coach? Like what did you do to help help yourself to not not continue down that path or did to stay inside our lanes?

Adrianne 36:45
i My husband and I were very close. So he definitely I would say, like kind of operated like a mentor for me. So I’d always run things through him. And he’s always a fixer. So he’s like, look, let’s hire people. So I hired he actually put out like a call for interns the one summer and I had like high school, high school girls in the neighborhood that came in and helped me college girls from SCAD came in to help me, I hired virtual assistants to help me on the social media side and the blogging side. Just to free up time to do what I really wanted to do, which was design. Because all of the nitty gritty and behind the scenes to just keep the business running, I was like not my cup of tea to happen, but not what you wanted exactly was not my cup of tea, I wanted the creative side and not the other side. So that’s kind of what I did. And then the pandemic happen. So unfortunately, that was like a hard stop, because people were not buying clothing. And the clothing side of it kind of fell by the wayside. But I always say for this part in my story is the pendulum swung. So here, I was not realizing it. But I was building a second business, the blogging, the influencing the creating. And that’s what then took the stage during you know, 2020. And today was our family became the brand, it was no longer about the clothing. That’s what started it. But now it’s the family. And obviously our family grew. So I had a third son, and then surprise, surprise, the ending happy ending my daughter. And so now I’m a mom of four. And it’s like, I can’t juggle all these balls, like something’s gotta give. And so in a way, that’s why when we were speaking beforehand about the divine intervention, it’s almost like Well, here we go, could I have still kept running my business with the product base, but you need to really be like, super present for that. Or now I’m doing I’m creating content for brands, big brands that like I’ve used my entire life. And that’s super easy. And I can still be here and present for my four kids when they need me. So what really sticks out for me, I read a book, actually by Joanna Gaines, a couple years ago, and her story is kind of eerily similar in the fact that she had her children and she had her little store and she had to close the door on the store because her four kids needed her. And she kind of had a little voice that was like, Don’t worry, there’s bigger plans after this. Just be a mom be present for your kids. And she was and then knock knock knock, you know, she was blogging and somebody HGTV was like, Hey, let’s do a pilot for this show. And we all know where she ended up. So I think about that often is that my biggest opportunities and my what I look at as my biggest successes were during times of stillness, where I just let whatever come to me and figure it out that way instead of like trying to actively push up this hill and pursue and pursue and pursue and then kind of, it’s harder, you know?

Hutson 40:05
Well, I think that’s to me that that’s the a huge No, no, a lesson for a lot of us is that all the doors closing, which you live in New York was a door closing to fashion for a lot of in many ways it basically every way. Yes. And the pandemic happening is the door closing in every way for your business that you started and your baby and all those kinds of Yeah, real baby. But yeah, this is baby. Yes,

Adrianne 40:30
it was my first baby. Yeah. Second baby. Yeah, right. But Aiden came first, I

Hutson 40:35
guess. But if you look at those as opportunities and stillness versus why this is happening to me what I worked so hard for this, what am I gonna do now? And there’s two ways to look at that. And you’ve chosen to look at them as opportunities, which is not always normal.

Adrianne 40:49
But I’ve had my moments I do Sure, yeah, but but you’ve used

Hutson 40:53
those as opportunities. And, you know, we talk about growth mindset, as he said before, and you could say, you can grow through failure, but you also grow through these seemingly bad opportunities, and you’ve grown to new a new version of yourself first, and is probably closer to the version of the person that you want to be New York was, in some ways, taking your way. And yeah, probably even running the business as the clothing even though it sounds like was going well, eventually was gonna probably run you. Well,

Adrianne 41:18
it’s funny, because I actually had the same thought with both of them. And it was, is this, what I’m gonna have to keep doing forever. So while I’ve really enjoyed the clothing brand, and starting something from scratch, and watching it grow, I did have my thoughts in the, in the slug of it. Oh, my God, I have to keep coming up with collections. I have to keep the people excited and wanting them to keep purchasing and whatever. And it was like, Okay, here we go again,

Hutson 41:47
just what I want. Yeah. So it’s so interesting. With our framework. The beauty of it is I think it goal setting. And you’ve like we said, you reach your goals, like there’s no question about that, is that oftentimes our goals are to nearsighted, even if they’re 15 years away, because then when you do them and you get there, you’re like, is this it? Is this the goal that I wanted? And I reach it? Because I did now what? versus saying, Well, what if it? What if, when I die, how do I what I want my work legacy to be. So then when you you reach a little moment, it’s even there five or 10 years away? It’s not like, oh, gosh, why am I what do I do now? It’s like, well, this is one step to the greater picture, right? Negative picture changes for us always. But having that picture allows for it sounds like you’ve been grounded enough to be able to and fortunate enough, I’m sure you’d say the same Yes, to have these pivots. And they continue to help you grow in the person you want to be. What we want to do is like, you know, talk through how to help folks in all areas, not just work, but say, Okay, well, is this helping me be the person I want to be? And if not, why? And what do I need to do to correct that path, which sounds like you and your husband have had a good relationship to where you can have those conversations or allow for those moments to happen to bring back to Monroe Central. He’s a pendulum and makes me think of swinging back to the middle, almost, of staying on the path because we always swing we’re gonna always swing exactly in life, but having folks around having opportunities to come back to the middle, but we don’t know the middle is we can’t hit the middle, right? That’s sure. Yeah. And I sounds like you whether it’s on paper, or you thought about it fully, it sounds like you, you do know the person you want to be whether it’s as a mom or as a spouse, or as a sister or daughter or whatever, as an employee, or as a business owner, or whatever, you know, what you want to be, even though sometimes it sounds like it’s happened serendipitously or, you know, with divine intervention. Yeah. Yeah. And so the brand’s now you in the fam, to a degree.

Adrianne 43:50
Yeah. So another interesting thing is that what I always saw back then, at 12 years old, designing my what I thought was my brand. I always saw myself as a mom, too. So I wanted the house with the kids and I wanted to work from home, I didn’t want to go to an office and one of them close with me. And really, another goal achieved in my mind is the fact that I’ve taken them with me through all of this. So the clothing brand was started because of my son, Aiden. And then our family grew and through it all, they’ve been with me for the ride the entire way. And so as long as that continues, I’m happy like I’m achieving my personal goals. Whatever that ends up looking like in the future couple years from now, because who knows? Obviously my what I do is social media base at this point in time social media can change. Do I no longer have I don’t know. I don’t know I can no longer be relevant but as long as you know, they’re with me through it all. Oh, I’m good. Yeah.

Hutson 45:02
And you said you love to travel have a child with a family.

Adrianne 45:05
Love traveling with the family? Yes. So we did a lot of it pre pandemic with our two boys. And then we got back into it last year, and we’re hoping this year we’re going to do more of it. So what

Hutson 45:18
does it look like for you and your family travel together? Are you all like adventurers when you go? Do you mix in relaxation? What kind of travelers are y’all?

Adrianne 45:26
Oh, well, a little bit of both. So we always kind of have some agenda of things to achieve. But then we yeah, we we love to just take in. I don’t really like to like over plan, my travel or vacations. It’s never really it doesn’t really feel like a vacation with kids. Right? You’re just kind of living elsewhere. But yeah, we don’t plan our days or anything we like to explore and all that stuff. But yeah,

Hutson 45:57
your kids enjoy traveling.

Adrianne 45:59
They love traveling. They I mean, they’ve all gotten bitten by the bug. They my daughter especially is like when are we going to the next time? She’s like, four, and she’s like packing her bags when she plays and she’s like, I’m going to a hotel tonight.

Hutson 46:14
Okay, awesome and scary at the same time.

Adrianne 46:17
It is scary. I know. We’re creating a monster.

Hutson 46:20
That’s been your favorite place of hard travel with your family.

Adrianne 46:23
So we did Spain and Iceland this past summer and we are like hit hard by Spain.

Hutson 46:30
We’re gonna be we’re gonna be in Madrid and the end of March. I’m

Adrianne 46:34
jealous. Yeah, Madrid is our favorite. If we could live in Madrid, we’d live there one day in

Hutson 46:40
Madrid to me is the most European Madrid it sounds ridiculous. European Spanish city. Yeah. Makes me feel like other European places, which I Yeah.

Adrianne 46:49
And it’s funny because the minute we landed in Madrid, and like, she’s back, like, I love that city life. But Madrid is so amazing. Because you can hit up Valencia within an hour. And, you know, it’s just the people and the food. You know, like all the things and my kids absolutely adored it. So if we ever got an opportunity to live abroad, I think we have family would take it. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. But Iceland was pretty cool to

Hutson 47:16
know. I didn’t on the list. I we our family loves to explore the trip. Oh, the hike.

Adrianne 47:22
We do hikes. Yeah, Iceland perfect.

Hutson 47:25
Yeah, I love cultures and cities. I love both, of course. But yeah, we find with our aged kids. It’s easy to be like playing a hike and then chill, right? Yeah, we’re being active, and we’re conquering something together.

Adrianne 47:38
And then they get tired. And they’re a little more snow.

Hutson 47:42
Like, how do you find time to like, you know, hike in Madrid around like playing a little path to Concord? Yeah, to get somewhere. But ya know, I’m excited for it. I’m glad that I’m glad that your kids love traveling. It’s, it’s a big part of my wife and our wife as well. And, you know, I can’t imagine not doing it with my kids. Like you said, Bring him along. And it is hard.

Adrianne 48:03
It’s Oh, for sure. Yeah. And I think we’ve done it so much now that I like don’t focus on the hard parts anymore. It is what it is. I just feel like they’re going to act the way they’re going to act. Regardless if we’re home or traveling or somewhere else. Or be in like Madrid, you know them and deal with their crap there then, you know, at home, but yeah, yeah,

Hutson 48:23
well, right, exactly. And whether they’re here, they’re not going to be better there. I think I exactly deal with their minds. Like, hey, let me try what’s like our best behavior like, Well, why is the opposite of life?

Adrianne 48:35
Well, realize, like how we act as adults when we travel. So if it was just me and my husband, we’d probably be at each other’s throats a little bit too, because it’s straight travel is stressful. So how can we expect our kids to be perfect? You know, they’re not going to they’re going to they’re going to be a little tense.

Hutson 48:52
But so do you and your children have a knack for fashion? A love for fashion?

Adrianne 48:56
I think my daughter does. Yeah. And then I it’s funny, my son, Hudson, my second born he he’s a big soccer guy. But that boy knows how to dress.

Hutson 49:09
In the soccer culture in Europe.

Adrianne 49:12
Exactly. He loves his shoes and hid all his kits and stuff. So yeah, I think he got bit by the fashion bug, too.

Hutson 49:18
That’s a trip. Yeah. Well, thanks so much for your time today.

Adrianne 49:23
Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Episode 1:

Unveiling Resilience: Navigating Life’s Challenges with Katie Bryant

Katie Bryant, Founder of Fresh Fit Kate

We are kicking off season 2 by sitting down with Katie Bryant, a dedicated holistic health practitioner and wellness coach. Katie’s advocacy for women’s health shines through as she shares her personal journey of triumph over adversity, including her battle with severe depression. Through candid conversation and heartfelt reflections, Katie offers valuable strategies for building resilience and navigating life’s challenges with grace and courage. Join us as we discover how embracing vulnerability can lead to profound growth and transformation.

Katie Bryant is a holistic health practitioner, a wellness coach, and the Founder of Fresh Fit Kate. Follow her on Instagram @freshfitkate

Hutson 0:13
Welcome to the joy and goal setting podcast where we empower individuals to discover their purpose, achieve their goals and experienced a joyful life through encouraging conversation. I’m your host Hudson DODDS. Today we’re sitting down with Katie Bryan. Katie is a wellness coach, business owner and a mother of three. We discussed finding accountability, overcoming depression, and how your past challenges can fuel your future success.

Katie, welcome to the show. I’m so glad you’re here.

Katie 0:47
Thank you for having me.

Hutson 0:48
Yeah. So when the new year something you’ve been asking folks is something that you’re really excited about for the year for 2024. And, and or maybe one thing that’s a little causing little nervousness or uneasiness about about the new year? Okay,

Katie 1:05
um, well, I’m really excited that first is just a new year. I know a lot of people are like, well, you know, all about not setting resolutions. And you know, not looking at this as a new start. But I love to look at it as like a fresh new start. We’ve just been given a brand new year to live. And I feel like that’s a gift. I just love fresh start new start. I get excited about it. And so I just love the energy of of that. As far as being nervous about anything. I feel like I am a little bit of I love to be a planner, and I love to have control over things. And I’ve learned a lot through this life that that’s that’s not always how life works out. And so learning to just trust where I’m going in this life.

Hutson 1:55
Yeah, yeah, we love. I mean, it’s control is a good thing and a bad thing. We love being control, because that also helps us have expectations and all those things. But also, if you want to control everything, you inevitably you get let down. Yeah. Right. And we can’t possibly control everything, which is causes stress and anxieties. Yeah. Which we need more of No, or is that like perfect mixture, right of like controlling what you can control we talk about and then things you can’t control, like letting go. And, you know, when those things happen, well, so where are you from? And what college you go to? And yeah, what do you what are you doing now?

Katie 2:32
So I’m originally from Rochester, New York, and looks very different from Charleston, South Carolina. But I’ve been living here for a little over five years. And I love it here. I hope God intends on keeping me here because I don’t ever want to leave. I went to college, I started off my college career at Keuka College, which is a very small private school in New York on a beautiful lake. scenery is like movie scene, and then furthered my education later on in life through IEHP, which I’m sure we’ll probably talk a little bit further down the road. Yeah, so I live here with my family. And doing now. I am so originally, I’ve I’ve had a lot of jobs. But originally, I kind of started this journey 10 years ago, in the health and wellness field as I started my own personal journey, and led me to what I’m doing today, which I’m a holistic health practitioner. So I work one on one with women. Awesome. Yeah.

Hutson 3:39
Cool. Well, I started 10 years ago, then you jumped into this health space. Yeah. Were you someone that growing up that was always fascinated by health and wellness? How did that come to be for you?

Katie 3:51
Um, no, I was not. I, I didn’t live an unhealthy life. I was really active person. But no, I really wasn’t, you know, too much into health and wellness. I actually wanted to originally went to school, because I wanted to get into deaf education. And then I ended up going into sports management. And then I ended up I got engaged when I was in college. My husband and I were I was 20 at the time. And a year later I found out I was pregnant and our wedding wasn’t actually until two years after our engagement. And that kind of changed everything. And so my focus was more on becoming a mom and I started working nights at that time. And my husband worked during the day so that we could raise our children at home. So I did that for almost 10 years. And during this time after I had my daughter I was diagnosed with postpartum depression I ended up having My boys, they’re all very well, my kids are all very close in age, they’re less than two years apart, and ended up being put on a good amount of medication for depression and anxiety. And I was, didn’t know this at the time, but I was on a combination of medications I should not have been on. And so I was,

it was pretty bad, I was having suicidal thoughts. And that was something never in a million years that I ever think I would end up having or thinking.

But I actually had, how it was going to take my life all planned out. And before that was going to happen, it was going to happen right before I went to work. And I just got on my knees. And I was just pleading and begging God that if I wasn’t meant to do this, that something would happen to stop me prevent this, but I didn’t know how to make it stop. I had gone to my doctors, I had seeked all the help that I knew to seek. And I just the only way I can explain it as I just wanted it to stop. And I really felt like everybody in my life would be better without me. And I got literally got up from my knees, and my daughter burst it through my bedroom door. And she’s not a crier. She’s still not a crier today. And she just grabbed on to me and started crying until me she didn’t want me to leave. And then my boys followed and they were holding on to me, and they were just like, Please don’t go, please don’t go. And I just fell into a puddle of tears and my husband came home from work, we typically literally passed in the driveway. And I would say hi goodbye, I would head to work. And I wasn’t in the driveway when he got home. And so he came upstairs to see what was going on. And I let him know what was happening at that time. I ended up being hospitalized for a week, which I thought would be a great thing. Maybe I would finally get the help that I needed. But instead I left there more heavily medicated than when I got there. Yeah. And I lived my life, it’s it is kind of a blur to me, which I hate saying, because it was a part of my life that my my children were growing. But a lot of it’s a blur. Just because I was on so much. And that’s when I started to turn to food and alcohol because it made me feel something. And so I had never been overweight, I never had dealt with any issues when it came to being overweight, but five, six years of turning to food and alcohol, you gain weight. So I found myself heavily medicated and obese. And I was just like, I cannot believe this is my life. Yeah. And I just remember just like constantly begging and pleading God, like please help me change my life. And I just remember thinking like, this is how I guess it’s always going to be. And then there was just a part where I was on vacation with my family. And I just remember going I there was a something that happened. And I went back to the hotel room by myself and I basically shut the curtains and I sobbed in the bed and I said I can’t live my life like this. When we go back home, I have to figure out how to change my life. And it was just making that decision that I was going to do whatever it took to not live my life like this anymore.

Hutson 8:53
Were you still heavily medicated at that time? Yes. And I didn’t know

Katie 8:57
how I was not going to be that, you know, heavily medicated and didn’t even know what that was going to look like.

Hutson 9:05
Would you say that was the first time since that all began? Since the postpartum and all everything that you mentally made it made committed to yourself to making a change. I mean, it sounds like there are many times where you want it to change I want it to was that the first time you committed to yourself like no, I’m actually going to find a way I don’t have a way but I’m going to find that way. Yes.

Katie 9:28
I ended up having this dream. I’m not a dreamer. At all, like I’ve had like probably a few dreams I can actually remember. But it was the type of dream where you wake up and you sit in your bed and you were like, This is real. Did this really happen or not really happen? But I just felt like in this dream I was I was laying down. It was super bright. I couldn’t open my eyes. I saw this hand I grabbed a hold of it. It felt like it was like I needed to get out of where I was and When I woke up, I felt like oh my gosh. Like, I’ve been doing this all wrong. I felt like at that moment, I had been begging and pleading God to change my life and like, magically make that happen.

Hutson 10:15
Like a genie. Yeah, no, no, rub the lamp. Come on and do it for me. Yeah. And I

Katie 10:19
felt like at that moment was like, You need to take a hold of my hand and do the work with me. And it was done where I was like, Okay, I’m gonna figure this out. Yeah. And like I said, I didn’t know how it was gonna figure it out. But I had a feeling and just a confidence that I was gonna figure it out. Yeah,

Hutson 10:36
it’s amazing. It’s amazing when we tell ourselves, I don’t need statements or positive statements or anything, how it how it can? Scientifically we know it changes, it can change our life. 100%. And it sounds like for you, that’s absolutely true. So committed yourself that something’s going to change. Don’t know what Yeah, it’s going to happen. How did you kind of climb out of that, that space you’re in to continue actually making change versus kind of spiraling back into depression? It was hard.

Katie 11:13
I want to tell you, it’s like I made the decision and smooth sailing from there. But it wasn’t. But I had two choices. I could keep living the life I was living, or I could choose differently. And I want it to choose differently. So I really had to look at, okay, what are all the things that I’m doing in my life that are not serving me, and are keeping me in the place that I’m in? I knew being on all these medications was one of the issues. And so I knew I was going to have to figure out like how to start getting off of those. I’m not against medication or anything like that. But I don’t think most of the time it’s a band aid. Yeah. And,

Hutson 11:57
and cause is not actually being being figured

Katie 12:00
out. Yeah. And I want it the tools, I wanted to figure it out on how to get there without the band aid anymore. So I really had to, like, take an honest look at my life. And there were a lot of things I was doing that were self destructive, specially in my mindset, I hung out and surrounded myself with people that were negative, because I was negative. And so it just made me feel better to be negative with other negative people. And that was not good. You know, that wasn’t serving me that wasn’t getting me to the place I want it to be. And I knew that was one thing that really had to change, which was hard, because some of those people I was really close with in my life. And you know, love them, right? Yeah, but just didn’t love what? I was allowing it to our

Hutson 12:48
house and the person that you’re becoming they it was not the person you wanted to become and they weren’t helping you. Yeah.

Katie 12:53
And I wasn’t strong enough to like, be around people like that and not affect Yeah, sure. So that was one thing. Another thing I realized during this time was, Wow, I am not nice to myself. And that’s got to change. The things that I thought about myself the things I said out loud. I would never say to anybody ever not even like my world, like worst enemy, you know, and I was like, that’s got to change. I can’t talk to myself like this anymore. Like, that’s not okay. So I really had to figure that out. And this is when I first really learned about self development and personal development. I was like, Okay, I need help strengthening this area. I don’t know how to do that. So I started turning to books and audio books to help me figure that out. And so there were a lot of things I needed to strengthen. So I really had to go okay, let’s one thing. Yeah. But I realized that filling my head with the things that it needed to hear, even if it wasn’t necessarily coming from me at first was helping, and it was just encouraging and empowering me and making me feel like okay, yeah, I can do this. Yeah. And I had that belief. I could, like I said, like I said, I just didn’t know how the tools, right? Yeah.

Hutson 14:14
So did you Was it difficult? It was always difficult cutting ties with folks. But finding a new community can equally be just as challenging it would have find a community quickly or not quickly, how would you go about kind of, because I would imagine a lot of folks that feel similar kind of like, yeah, these group of people I associate with aren’t the best, but like, you know, we’ve invented 10 years or whatever, you know, right? I find people, right?

Katie 14:40
And I feel like you you can still have those people in your life, but you just have to consume more of your time and space with people that you want to be more like like that energy. Yeah, you want to feel you’ve got to be around that. And so, at that time, I found a community And I joined it because it was just about positive mindset. It was about working out. It was about eating healthier. And for me, I needed that. And it was a virtual community, which like, almost 10 years ago, I started that, which is, you know, it wasn’t something that was popular the point, right, yeah. And so it was kind of, for me at first, I was a little intimidated and a little nervous, because I thought it was a Facebook group, which I had no, I mean, I had no idea people could message you on Facebook at that time. Like when I discovered that I was like, Oh, my gosh, I have all these birthday invites. I didn’t know, terrible. But, you know, I remember thinking I was a little nervous, because I like, didn’t have a lot of confidence at that time. And I thought, you know, am I joining a community where all these women have it figured out? You know, is this going to be a welcoming community? Are they going to be judgmental? Because I’m just starting my journey. Yeah. But it was a really welcoming community. And that really helps me a lot. And it was just women from all over this country. Which was cool, because I made new friends that were all over the place. I wish that they had lived closer. Yeah, no, but it was nice to have that space. Yeah. Because I needed it

Hutson 16:16
was a space for when you have people that are like minded like that. Wherever you’re on the journey. Everyone’s different. But they everyone kind of hold each other accountable, whether it’s intentionally, which sometimes is really good for community, also, unintentionally, just, when you see people living, the way that you want to live like, that can be empowering, obviously can cause the reverse, which is it can crush your self confidence. But if you’re filling yourself with positive things, and you’re flowing to the positive people, it becomes not about crushing and confidence building your confidence. Yeah, I can be like them. Yeah. It makes you want to be better being around people that are pursuing a purpose. Yes.

Katie 16:56
And it’s totally reframing your mind going from Oh, those people are so annoying. They’re so happy all the time. Like, what? Life isn’t that perfect? Because that’s how I would used to think to going like, I wouldn’t be like that. Yeah, I want more joy. I want to be happy. I want I want to feel like I was saying like, I want to feel like sunshine to others. I want to be a light. And 10 years ago, I was not that. I was not that at all. But yeah, being, you know, choosing to surround yourself with that type of energy is is a game changer. Yeah, sure.

Hutson 17:32
Yeah. That first step is the hardest. And I think you mentioned we talked about just like committing personally, is the biggest way to do it. And then it’s the little small steps along the way. Yeah, sounds like for you, it was a lot of the the health journey personally, to climb out of that which now which can spill over to every area of your life to family and all of the things. Yeah. So how did you so is I’m assuming it sounds like that’s what kind of got you into the health, wealth, business side of things. Like you fell in love with it through your personal journey.

Katie 18:13
I did. Yeah. About a year into my journey. I began working with my doctor about four months into my journey, went to him and said, Hey, I need to talk to you, because I want to start getting off these medicines. And I feel like I’m in a good place with these routines and healthier habits that I can do this. I think one of the most frustrating things for me was I was put on all these medications. And I was told what they would do for me. I was never told what was going to happen when I went to get off of them. And so it was very difficult, very difficult. Just the side effects were horrible. And so that was that was definitely a hurdle to get over. I bet for sure. So there’s a lot of like, fighting, I say often, you know, I think so many of us are like, Oh, I wish we were motivated. I wish I felt motivated. And there are times where we will feel motivated. But I learned on this journey. I needed to be disciplined. Yeah. And I needed to focus more on that versus being feeling motivated. You can

Hutson 19:24
Yeah, you can build habits and those are real. Yes, feelings are also real, but they’re unpredictable. Yes. Whereas a habit we know is is neurologically is a thing that you can create. Right and once and then it’s that’s the discipline side of things. Yeah. And those things are you call them healthy habits. You can equally have unhealthy habits so we create right? Those are harder to break to yes. But once you do that, then when you don’t feel like your point we don’t feel like it doesn’t matter if you feel like it or not. In fact, most of time we don’t feel like doing all the things we do. But if you build if you build the systems around you will tell to you allow you to then continue and you know, we talked about like, your purpose. And if you know what your purpose is, and you don’t feel like it, you can kind of like recollect and say, Yeah, but this is going over here going to help me be the person I want to be. And the answer’s no, then okay, let’s come back. Right, let’s get back on that track and kind of you have guardrails, that way,

Katie 20:17
right. 100%.

Hutson 20:20
So, let’s talk a little bit about your practice what you’re doing, you’re working with women specifically? Is that one on one kind of? Yeah, what do you what do you bring into that, so

Katie 20:31
every client I work with looks different. Um, so what happened a year after my journey, I started running accountability groups. And so building a community and providing a space that was provided for me, I began to provide for other women. And I loved it. I wanted to just give other women hope, and to let them know they had a community that would welcome them. And that they weren’t alone. Because I think a lot of us we don’t, we’re not vulnerable. And you know, we act like everything’s great and fine and good, which isn’t a bad thing. But a lot of times, we’re things are not good. And we can feel really alone. And it’s hard to share that with other people. And so I really wanted to create a community where it didn’t feel like that for women, and they could share their struggles and feel like it was a safe space to do that, but also share their wins. And you know, I always say, it’s not like, Oh, they’re Suze bragging again, about what she just did, it was like, yes, Suzie like you’re doing this, using, and just cheering on women. And I, I’ve loved doing that. But through the years, I, you know, I’m getting older and went through some health issues, myself. And one thing I learned when I first struggled after being diagnosed with postpartum was I really struggled to find somebody that I felt like was listening to me, like it was being heard. I think, knowing what I know, now, my hormones were probably completely imbalanced. And what I didn’t need was necessarily these medications, I needed to figure out what the imbalances were and balance them out. But it didn’t know that at the time, and I’ve learned that you need to advocate for yourself, you need to ask questions, and it’s okay to get second opinions. So through these last 10 years, and went through some of my own health issues, and again, find my I found myself in this place where I was like, gosh, like something is not right. And nobody’s listening to me, you know, and the more I was sharing about that, on my social media, the more and more conversations I was having with women who were saying, Oh, my gosh, I’m going through the same thing. I feel like nobody’s listening to me. And I just kept hearing that over and over again. And I was like, gosh, I, you know, love what I do. But I just felt like I was being called to work with women more in a intimate setting one on one, where they actually had a place where they felt like they were being listened to find that space for me. So I really started researching schools, and I’m a researcher. And so my husband was like, Lord, you just need to make a decision. Like, I’m all behind you, but like some point gonna pull the trigger. Yeah. And I’m like, I know, I just want to make sure I’m right, you know, making the right decision. And I ended up coming across this book that this doctor wrote, and I read it. And it was about this doctor who was diagnosed with all of these different autoimmune disorders. Basically, at 17, he was told this, how you’re always going to live your life. And he was not okay with that. And so he went on his own mission of like, I’m going to figure this out. And so he had to travel outside of this country and started studying, you know, the way other people were being healed with autoimmune some of the things that he was diagnosed with, and was able through supplementation, changing his lifestyle, mindset, nutrition, changing his life and ridding himself of these autoimmune he was diagnosed with and he’s been able to keep them at bay since then, and, you know, became so passionate, became a doctor, you know, and led him down this path. And so I was like, I want to study under him, because he gets it. Yeah, he’s been there. And he knows, like, he just has a heart and a passion. And so I knew I felt was like, the right fit. And so, um, so I ended up going, you know, running my business, going back to school. While I was still trying to figure out what was going on with me. Yeah, and, but it eventually led me to opening up my own practice in September of last year.

Hutson 24:50
Oh, nice. Congratulations.

Katie 24:52
Thank you. Thank you. Yeah.

Hutson 24:54
What challenges are you facing with the new business and what uh, what What are some some big wins and successes you’ve had.

Katie 25:03
Um, so I would say the challenge would be when I first started, I basically have a new client package. And so when I first set that up, I wanted to make sure one I had spending enough time with them. So we have for one on one sessions together, that are an hour each. And we do like a really in for thorough intake form when they when they start with me. But what I’ve learned is outside of that, you know, I set aside so many hours to work on, all the clients that I see their needs are all so different. And it’s really figuring out what their imbalances are, so I can help them. And then we can get them onto a path to feeling incredible from within, which is like the ultimate goal, forget the perfect number and weights and whatever, like I want them and I work with for their goal to be I just want to feel incredible from within. Yeah. And so what I’ve learned, which has been, I feel like it’s a refining process, because it’s a new business is that I need more time. Because, you know, some of the women have been dealing with these things for 10 years, 15 years, 20 years, and there’s a lot of digging, there’s a lot of research, there’s a lot of things that are involved. So I’m realizing I need more time. So I’m realizing I’m not going to be able to see as many clients as I wanted to one on one each week, because I need more time for the women that I am going to be working with. So I’m figuring that out and adjusting that. Yeah,

Hutson 26:34
so do you do you mix in? Or is this a part of it? Or maybe not? Kind of the accountability counseling type piece?

Katie 26:42
So I do with the women, I’m working one on one with I do, I’m checking in with them every single week, following up with them seeing how their weeks going, you know, because they’re all following different things, different protocols, it depends what they’re healing from, um, you know, if it’s got issues, hormone issues, so everybody’s journey looks different. So I’m checking in, wanting to know, of course, what their wins are. You know, but also what their struggles are, and help them you know, so I’m just checking in with them weekly on that, and then I do a follow up with them on based off of what they share. But that’s another thing that I learned I need more time with because a lot of my follow ups. I had, you know, scheduled 30 minutes, and they’re taking me an hour, hour and a half. So, you know, I’m like I said, refining and learning. Yeah, as I go. If you want

Hutson 27:35
to discover how the audio lives founder Mark Condon quit smoking, shed 80 pounds, established a thriving logistics company, and embrace the challenges of becoming an Ironman triathlete. All thanks to the framework we referenced in today’s episode, order your copy of his inspiring book, the ideal life today, within a website or any major retailer, begin your journey towards a fulfilling life filled with purpose and achievement. What are some of the biggest? I don’t know pitfalls, probably the wrong word. But I’m sure you see a lot of concern. Everyone has different needs and everything, like what are some consistent things either that folks could be doing that might be helping them on the front end, or reoccurring things you folks come in, you’re like, gosh, if I just could have gotten 10 years ahead of this, this might have been helpful for you? Or is there not really any way of even saying that? Um,

Katie 28:25
I guess it kind of depends on the individual I’m, I’m talking with in general, like with women, I’ve been working with my accountability groups, I would say more, most of the women I work with their expectations of results are very unrealistic. And I cannot say it enough, like you have to be patient, you did not get to where you are overnight, you’re not going to get to where you want to be versus also true, right overnight. So being patient because I get messages still, you know, like, it’s been a week scale hasn’t moved, you know, and they’re freaking out. And I’m like, trust the process. Yeah, you know, and a lot of us and a lot of them women, I’m working with coming to me with habits like I had, right. And so, you one perfection can never be our goal, because that’s just unachievable. And we’re going to be miserable, and it’s not going to be sustainable. But to you know, just having realistic goals and timeline. And I love to tell people like give yourself a year. Yeah. Give yourself whole year like you’re learning to change so many things about your life. It’s gonna take time. Yeah. And not to feel like a failure. When you do something you know, you shouldn’t be doing Yeah, you know, learn from it. You know, well, how did you feel when you pounded that bag of m&ms? Well, I felt like crap. Okay. Well, do you want to keep feeling that way right now? Okay, well, let’s figure out what can we do instead of turning to the m&ms to solve our problem? What can we turn to instead? What’s a healthier option? What does that look like? And so, you know, It’s reframing the mind. You know, as we develop healthier habits,

Hutson 30:04
yeah, reframing the mind. And I think what you said is really good. We’re trying to do, if you’re trying to do so many things at one time, you’re gonna fail most of them, right? And we’d talk a lot about doing one thing at a time really well, and focusing and dialing in that thing for a quarter then moving on. Because then you can really put all the effort and energy and then your habits built to give me the next thing when you try and do seven things. Well, you’re probably going to fail it, maybe seven of them, maybe six, and then you feel like a failure. And even though we were successful in one, that’s great. Yeah. That’s like you said, that’s the long term vision versus the How fast can I fix this, which really is like, give me the BandAid, right? Versus will this is going to take time to really develop these habits really develop a new mindset, and kind of develop a new you a new person, which is the ultimate goal, right? Imagine right is like creating the version of the person you want to be

Katie 30:58
right. And that that amount of work and effort, even though it feels like oh my gosh, that’s a long road ahead of me. Makes everything that you achieve along the way. So much more worth. Yeah. And you appreciate your life and your health. So much more. Yeah, because of it.

Hutson 31:15
Yeah. And I mean, it is a long road, let’s pretend as a year, two years or whatever. But in the grand scheme, it goes by so fast. It does. It doesn’t the moment. We look back, like three months ago, a year ago, like it’s gone so

Katie 31:29
fast. Listen, when I was doing a 25 minute cardio workout, it felt like eternity. Like, how do people like this? Are the brothers right? I just do this everyday, like brushing my teeth. What are these people nuts. But again, like reframing my mind to going instead of going, I tried doing this, I hate this. I don’t want to do this. I can’t do this. It’s hard. I was like, you’ve got this, you can do this. It’s almost over with keep going. You know, just that was a huge piece to having success along the way was just constantly going, Nope. let’s reframe that. No, let’s, let’s make this better.

Hutson 32:04
What sounds like every, every difficulty you’ve experienced, personally has prepared you for these moments to be able to determine and help others find their joy, which isn’t easy to say I’m sure and I know it sounds easier to say than experience for sure. But it also sounds like through that process, you became an incredible coach. And you’re like you just said you’re coaching these people along to be their best selves, which I’m imagining is bringing you quite a bit of joy. Yeah.

Katie 32:35
100% I love love, love, love. I don’t like all the back office stuff. About You know, as visitors, suddenly you got to do those things. But yeah, it does bring me such joy. It doesn’t feel like that part does not feel like work. Yeah, at all.

Hutson 32:54
Have you seen any of what you’re learning and what you’re doing translate to being a spouse or mom 100%.

Katie 33:03
When I first started my journey, I was four years of very ashamed of how I live my life. And the example I was setting my kids, I always told my kids what to do and what not to do. But I wasn’t showing them that. And I remember thinking when I started because now my kids are 2220 and 18. At the time, 10 years ago, they were much younger, but they were older. And you know, I thought is what I’m about to do and show them gotta make a difference. But I honestly think that if you were to ask any of my kids, they wouldn’t remember the old me. I think they just think of me always being healthy. Which as a mom, like that makes me feel emotional. Because I just they’re my world. Yeah. And so I wanted to I wanted to show them like what it looked like to take care of themselves, because I want them to take. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Hutson 34:05
So you mentioned, I’m interested in food. If you talked about food, and that journey for you. I’m curious. You know, from your perspective, what how does that how does how does food play into your clients a big role.

Katie 34:25
And I think probably most of my clients are attracted to me because of my social media and because of the food that I share with them. When I started my journey, I love food, I love food. And I knew that I didn’t want to feel deprived, like I was missing out on things and it’s definitely been a journey that has progressed along the way for sure. Because I would like eat do that like the 8020 where I was like eating clean 80% of

Hutson 34:55
the time and then indulging. Yeah, and you know

Katie 34:59
that I was okay for a while, but because I was eating so clean and developing all these healthy habits when I was eating like the 20%, I was like, Man, I feel like crap, I almost would feel like I had like a hangover, even if I didn’t have alcohol because I just felt so crappy from the foods I ate. And I was like, Gosh, I really don’t like feeling this way. Like, it kind of became like, it’s not really worth it. And so I was like, Okay, I gotta figure this out. I love nachos. Like how do I make nachos healthier? Okay, I can use better, healthier, homemade chips, or I can do sweet potatoes instead of the chips, or I can do peppers. And so those chips like trying to figure out ways that I could make things healthier, so I could still enjoy them. Yeah, still indulge in them, but still feel good after I ate them. So that was like a mission of mine. So I love sharing recipes with other people that tastes really good, that are indulgent, and allow you to still feel really good after you enjoy them.

Hutson 35:58
That’s awesome. So you, you’re constantly pouring out to your family. And now they’re older. But you’re still I’m sure you are yes, pouring out to all these individuals who I’m sure you love to death, but also aren’t filling up all the time, right? Yeah. How are you filling yourself up to make sure you have enough to pour out others,

Katie 36:17
I would say my husband is a really huge help in that department. He is always reminding me to like it’s okay, you need to like do something for yourself, you need to take a break, you need to take a breather, because I am a workaholic. Just by nature. I’ve always been that way it started working at a very young age. And I’m very driven, but throw something that I’m passionate about. And I could do this 24/7 Which isn’t healthy. So I’ve been really trying to honor like the day of rest on Sunday, I’ve been removing myself from social media at least 24 hours every single week, sometimes a little bit longer. Because I do build a lot of my business on Sure. Social media and that’s draining I working on all the content. And it just it’s hard and straining. And so he’s always really great. Like tomorrow, he had told me like a week ago, like, take Friday off. And you’re gonna show up in athletic gear. I’m not telling you what we’re doing. Oh, nice. So like, he’s really good at being like, Yeah, gotta take some time off and you know, enjoy life on your

Hutson 37:27
season. You’re not he’s like, Fine, I’ll, I’ll build it. You have to? Yes,

Katie 37:31
exactly, exactly. Like, it’s already planned. You got it, you got to show up, you got to do it. But he’s been so supportive. And that’s huge, because I talked to women all the time, who don’t have supportive husbands, and he’s just been my rock. And like, he’s like, even before I had it here, he knew I was a little nervous. And he was like, gonna do great, babe. Like, no, you’re gonna crush it today. And like, just sweet little messages like that. So and it’s been great because I have been able to he was an athlete in you know, played, he was a pitcher in college. So he’s always been athletic. But, you know, when I was unhealthy, he was a little unhealthy. We kind of like, together, let’s have ice cream, have cocktails, you know, whatnot. But, um, so I do feel like when I began to change my habits, and he, you know, started to see how good I was feeling. And I wanted him to feel as good as I was feeling. I want everybody to feel as good as I’m failing. You know, he started jumping. Yeah. Which has been awesome. So he’s like, you know, crushing the gym, 5am workouts. He he’s in great health takes really good care of himself. And

Hutson 38:44
you can only count when he grew up inside your house.

Katie 38:48
Yeah. Which is amazing. And my kids too, like I love you know, they’re, they’re working out and they’re, you know, my 18 year old, he’s still making some food choices where I’m like, Oh, come on, you know, you’re not going to feel good. You know, I get asked often, like, Do your kids eat, you know, only healthy foods and eat perfectly? And I’m like, No, you know, no, they don’t. But I am proud of all three of them. Because they do you know, they make choices that are good, or for their well being. So that’s a good thing. Yeah.

Hutson 39:16
Well, for someone listening that wants to get in touch with you or learn more, where do they go?

Katie 39:23
freshford K on Instagram or my website, which is also fresh fit Kate as well. So when I opened up my practice, I thought I was going to change that name because that was attached to my accountability groups and that brand, but it’s sticking for now. Yeah, awesome.

Hutson 39:41
Yeah. Thanks so much for everything. Thanks for being open and honest. And yeah, very inspiring.

Katie 39:47
Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Hutson 39:48
The joy in goal setting podcast is proud to be partnered with and brought to you by the ideal life. The ideal life offers a multimedia platform that is focused on cultivating a growth mindset. Here you’ll find a supportive community of coaches, valuable online resources and transformative courses aimed at helping you lead a more gratifying and joyful life. Ready to take the next step in your personal growth journey. Visit the ideal to explore their wealth and resources and join the vibrant growing community today.

Katie Bryant with Hutson Dodds at The Ideal Life Podcast studio

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The Joy in Goal Setting Podcast – Season 2

The Joy In Goal Setting Podcast is brought to you by The Ideal Life

Season 2 was hosted by Hutson Dodds, executively produced by Karissa Tunis and the EVRYBDY Studios Team.

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